Comparison of 5 different 3D printers


#21

Hummm... I bought my first spools through Amazon so I didn't notice that.  My work bought a few spools for me to print a few parts for them so I never saw the shipping charges. 

So far I've been more impressed with the finish of the regular ABS than the Ultra.  The regular ABS was cranking out nearly perfect parts.  I've had a little bit of delamination from the Ultra.  It could just be that the Ultra parts have been tougher geometries.


#22

I talked to two people at IMakr... Maki and the owner.  They were both really great.  Maki was able to answer almost all of my questions.

I ended up buying my printer through Amazon because they could get it to me in two days for just $20 extra with my Prime membership.  When I opened it I saw that it was distributed through Octave.  It looks like Octave offers some good products.  I later noticed that buying the filament directly from Zortrax is really cheap for the regular ABS... just $20 a spool.  I'm pretty sure I'll be going through a lot of spools with this machine.  still going strong with no failures yet and I keep it running almost full time.

This is a problem the US distributors are currently working to resolve with Zortrax. Octave had been keeping the prices at 20$ a spool however there have been some "complications" in this matter. Hopefully this can be resolved in the near future.

-Michael


#23

I'm not sure where these filament prices are coming from. Currently Octave is US$29.90 for Z-ABS, plus $7.50 shipping (and 8% tax if you are in California) or $37.40 for a reel. Zortrax store is $19.95 plus $37.86 shipping or $57.76 for a reel. At about 4 reels the shipping gets to be a little less than the cost of the filament itself. And if sent DHL you might get a tax bill too. Neither is particularly cheap. 


#24

This is a problem the US distributors are currently working to resolve with Zortrax. Octave had been keeping the prices at 20$ a spool however there have been some "complications" in this matter. Hopefully this can be resolved in the near future.

-Michael

LOL, you can add Australian distributors to the list. My filament price is likely to go from $34.95 AUD to $49.95 due, I suspect, to these same "complications". 


#25

Octave prices have now been adjusted to the American market. While the price per spool is higher, once you factor the shipping cost our prices are lower. On average our price will always be 1$ cheaper, we offer to buy spools in packs to lower the prices.

-Michael


#26

Octave has really good prices once shipping is factored in. I discussed the price issue with a retailer, so I fully understand why the prices are what they are. It's kinda sad that Zortrax has adopted the RadioShack model; advertise a price and then sell it to their retailers barely under the advertised price. (As a side note, RadioShack was SO bad at this that THEIR OWN RETAILERS could buy stuff cheaper from Amazon than from the warehouse. I wonder why they went under...)


#27

Octave has really good prices once shipping is factored in. I discussed the price issue with a retailer, so I fully understand why the prices are what they are. It's kinda sad that Zortrax has adopted the RadioShack model; advertise a price and then sell it to their retailers barely under the advertised price. (As a side note, RadioShack was SO bad at this that THEIR OWN RETAILERS could buy stuff cheaper from Amazon than from the warehouse. I wonder why they went under...)

Whilst I'm not at liberty to discuss this topic in any great depth I will disagree that Zortrax don't offer a reasonable discount to resellers. The complications arise in other areas.


#28

Great write up. I can't wait to see what your thoughts are after having it a while. I'm sure you'll be pleased. I've many times about the Form 1+ and a variety of other DLP/SLA printers. Currently the DWS X-Fab is tempting me with it's sexiness. As much as I love the Zortrax, I print a lot of stuff that demands high resolution. While our 3510 is great at that, it's very expensive to run and as you noted in your post, 3D Systems customer service is terrible. I truly can't believe how horrible it is after spending as much as we did on that machine! That's for another post though.

I went through a similar process before buying the Zortrax. Once I figured out all of it's nuances it has been great, or should I say they have been great. I liked it so much, I bought another one. Actually, one is owned by work the other by me. The hardest thing for me was warping and splitting. After a trip here to the forums, that was solved. I keep both printers running almost all the time. 

I will say this, while the heat up time may seem long, it's nothing compared to our other printer. As I mentioned above, I also run a Projet 3510 HD Plus and I've had to wait 3 hours before a print started. If you keep it running nonstop, you're still waiting 30 minutes but if it sits for a day or too, get ready to wait! 

The main reason I want it to heat up faster is crashes. On both of my M200's, they will occasionally crash while heating. So instead of starting a print and walking away, I have to stand buy it and wait for the print to start to make sure it doesn't freeze up while heating. I'm pretty sure it only happens while heating the bed and probably only about 5-10% of the time it freezes. It will build my confidence and then trick me!

This just happened Thursday night. As I was leaving work I started a 11 hour print. Anxious to start the weekend I started the print and left. It hadn't frozen all week on heating so I didn't even think about it. I came inFriday morning to see it stuck at 74% heating the bed. No like. 


#29

Great write up. I can't wait to see what your thoughts are after having it a while. I'm sure you'll be pleased. I've many times about the Form 1+ and a variety of other DLP/SLA printers. Currently the DWS X-Fab is tempting me with it's sexiness. As much as I love the Zortrax, I print a lot of stuff that demands high resolution. While our 3510 is great at that, it's very expensive to run and as you noted in your post, 3D Systems customer service is terrible. I truly can't believe how horrible it is after spending as much as we did on that machine! That's for another post though.

I went through a similar process before buying the Zortrax. Once I figured out all of it's nuances it has been great, or should I say they have been great. I liked it so much, I bought another one. Actually, one is owned by work the other by me. The hardest thing for me was warping and splitting. After a trip here to the forums, that was solved. I keep both printers running almost all the time. 

I will say this, while the heat up time may seem long, it's nothing compared to our other printer. As I mentioned above, I also run a Projet 3510 HD Plus and I've had to wait 3 hours before a print started. If you keep it running nonstop, you're still waiting 30 minutes but if it sits for a day or too, get ready to wait! 

The main reason I want it to heat up faster is crashes. On both of my M200's, they will occasionally crash while heating. So instead of starting a print and walking away, I have to stand buy it and wait for the print to start to make sure it doesn't freeze up while heating. I'm pretty sure it only happens while heating the bed and probably only about 5-10% of the time it freezes. It will build my confidence and then trick me!

This just happened Thursday night. As I was leaving work I started a 11 hour print. Anxious to start the weekend I started the print and left. It hadn't frozen all week on heating so I didn't even think about it. I came inFriday morning to see it stuck at 74% heating the bed. No like. 

This is a known issue with the latest firmware.


#30

Great write up. I can't wait to see what your thoughts are after having it a while. I'm sure you'll be pleased. I've many times about the Form 1+ and a variety of other DLP/SLA printers. Currently the DWS X-Fab is tempting me with it's sexiness. As much as I love the Zortrax, I print a lot of stuff that demands high resolution. 

That DWS X Fab website hasn't changed in the last year and they are still taking preorders.  That makes me believe they are having serious issues with the machine.  I'm starting to believe its vaporware.

The Form1+ has very high resolution for the most part. The side that faces the build platform can sometimes have a lot of significant bumps on it where the supports touch it.  Too many to sand flat in some cases.  I bought one for work and for myself.  We still use it a lot at work.  Its great for making manifolds with very small passages.  Anything over 0.040" diameter internal passages work well if you flush them out with alcohol before you UV cure the part.  At home I'm using the Zortrax the most by far.  Its just nice to pull a part of and be ready to use it in less than a couple minutes with no mess.  

Zortrax should put an hour meter on their machines.  It would probably be a good way to get people to use them even more ;-)


#31

never mind, editted


#32

Zortrax should put an hour meter on their machines.  It would probably be a good way to get people to use them even more ;-)

+1 This would help with billing clients as well as knowing when maintenance (lubrication, screw tightening, etc.) should be performed 


#33

That DWS X Fab website hasn't changed in the last year and they are still taking preorders.  That makes me believe they are having serious issues with the machine.  I'm starting to believe its vaporware.

The Form1+ has very high resolution for the most part. The side that faces the build platform can sometimes have a lot of significant bumps on it where the supports touch it.  Too many to sand flat in some cases.  I bought one for work and for myself.  We still use it a lot at work.  Its great for making manifolds with very small passages.  Anything over 0.040" diameter internal passages work well if you flush them out with alcohol before you UV cure the part.  At home I'm using the Zortrax the most by far.  Its just nice to pull a part of and be ready to use it in less than a couple minutes with no mess.  

Zortrax should put an hour meter on their machines.  It would probably be a good way to get people to use them even more ;-)

I have a colleague at the DWS factory in Italy right now. I should know what is going on with the XFab in a few days. There was talk of a Q1 2015 release, but lets see.


#34

Yeah, I'm not placing anymore orders with anyone unless they have a proven track record (Zortrax) or they are shipping an actual product. I've been burned by that once already (I stupidly backed a Buccaneer!). If DWS does ship the X-Fab and it's all they say it is, it could be a great printer.

That being said, now Carbon3D has to go and tempt our DLP/SLA senses with their CLIP printing. I don't think they're aiming for the consumer space. They want to play with the big boys and rightly so if it works like they say it does (constant theme?). They do have a solid $41m in funding, so they got that going for them. It would be interesting if they licensed the tech. That way they can focus on manufacturing and still get the tech into smaller printers. Time will tell.


#35

Carbon3D is a same story like BotObjects :) Many nice movies and descriptions, but the true is that they copied Form1 for 41M$ in 2 years :) I don't believe in the fairy tale about the fact that they increased print speeds of 25-100x


#36

Zortrax store is $19.95 plus $37.86 shipping or $57.76 for a reel. At about 4 reels the shipping gets to be a little less than the cost of the filament itself. And if sent DHL you might get a tax bill too. Neither is particularly cheap. 

That is definitely higher than it used to be but the $57.76 is if you buy just one.  As you said the more you buy the less it costs per spool.  Such as if you buy 10, the total prices comes down to about $34/spool including shipping.

Yeah, I'm not placing anymore orders with anyone unless they have a proven track record (Zortrax) or they are shipping an actual product. I've been burned by that once already (I stupidly backed a Buccaneer!). If DWS does ship the X-Fab and it's all they say it is, it could be a great printer.

I backed the Buccaneer too and Zortrax at the same time. :)  Of course I'm really happy with the Zortrax and still waiting on the Buccaneer.  I thought about getting a refund when they offered but if I don't like it I'll just sell it or give it to someone else.


#37

Carbon3D is a same story like BotObjects :) Many nice movies and descriptions, but the true is that they copied Form1 for 41M$ in 2 years :) I don't believe in the fairy tale about the fact that they increased print speeds of 25-100x

I'm not ready to through them in the same category as BotObjects. Those guys were sketchy from the beginning. In the end they sold their machine to 3D Systems and were probably pretty happy. Even if the got pennies on the dollar for it, just to be out of the chaos they created would be worth it. As I said above though, I have no faith in 3D Systems. they have more vaporware than any one company should (CocoJet, CubeJet, etc) plus, their customer service is the worst.

Not sure about them copying Form1. Didn't Form1 just take the SLA tech and package it so it was affordable? Obviously I'm dumbing that down but that's what it is in essence. The key to Carbon3D sound like they got around the peeling. Time will tell! I sure hope the fairy tell is true.

I backed the Buccaneer too and Zortrax at the same time. :)  Of course I'm really happy with the Zortrax and still waiting on the Buccaneer.  I thought about getting a refund when they offered but if I don't like it I'll just sell it or give it to someone else.

I didn't request my refund either from Pirate3D. I decided to write the money off and if a printer ever shows up, that's great. Like you, I sell it. And yes, super happy with my M200s. They continually makes me happy! 


#38

Carbon3D is a same story like BotObjects :) Many nice movies and descriptions, but the true is that they copied Form1 for 41M$ in 2 years :) I don't believe in the fairy tale about the fact that they increased print speeds of 25-100x

According to the reports, the technology is far from a re-branded SLA (Form1). Oxygen is used to form dead zones that cannot polymerize so that the part can essentially be continuously pulled up. That said, I too have some concerns. The thing I'm confused about is that they say that "UV light is played in a series of cross-sectional slides." If the oxygen is controlling what does and doesn't polymerize, why do they also need to control where the light hits? Shouldn't they just be able to use a UV lamp and control shape through just oxygen? 

With that said, like Abrahamalincoln said, it isn't fair to throw them in with BotObjects. Those guys were hilariously fake from day one - I have no idea how they got a quarter of what they did. But as far as Carbon3D goes, the big investor companies have very skilled specialists (engineers, etc) fully scrutinize everything they invest in. If there wasn't something there, they wouldn't have gotten the investment that they got. I guess time will tell. 


#39

Labrat, the oxygen is not shaping anything. It just creates this “non stick” boundary layer (dead zone)…a couple microns thick. That’s it. The rest is “continuous” DLP. The speed increase comes from the elimination of the peel and recoat steps.

This video here explains it well…

http://youtu.be/8uD0d1IPsF4


#40

Yes, eliminating the peeling is where they're gaining the speed. That way they can essentially project a series of images and have the platform holding the part moving up at a relatively constant rate.