Lots of talk of diff options other crappy printers have....

Zortrax M200 General Discussion
#1

I just did a very nice successful order - 45 hours straight of multiple prints with .09 ZABS and they look beautiful. 

The sides are as smooth as can be.   No warping and no shrinkage. none that I could detect. 

IMG_1472.jpg

And I see all the things people want that they think will make the printer better, but I have seen other prints from other printers that have those options and they are subpar at best.  

This customer came to me because of my printer and the quality it provides...with the "lack" of options. lol

I really would rather not open up a can of worms that will degrade my printer into being a 500$ piece of crap.  lol

But this is just one Printers opinion, and I think I am not alone in these thoughts. 

Cheers and Thank You Zortrax Team! images.jpeg

#2

If the options wernt promised this would be a completely different discussion

And the “can of worms” i opened has my zortrax printing just as nice only now in materials that dont look like your print came out of a gumball machine…its now tuesday and still no fixnon my inability tonpost photos…if youbsaw the photos of my carbon fiber and wood prints im certain youbwould want the option as well…all it calls for is a second nozzle

And ability to adjust temperature if course

#3

Just keep in mind that carbon fiber is very abrasive and nozzle replacement will probably happen frequently.

#4

It's sad how many people think more options would mean a worse printer.

come on people...

Just because some "crappy" printers have more options, does not mean that more options makes crappy printers.

#5

It's sad how many people think more options would mean a worse printer.

come on people...

Just because some "crappy" printers have more options, does not mean that more options makes crappy printers.

True.. But the "More options" must be done RIGHT.. That is what takes time.. They could put a bunch of options on the printer untested.. Wonder if people would be happy then.. lol 

#6

Josh youre so right…the m200 is a fantastic printer…nnothing iv done to mine makes it any less fantastic…sure, varying the temperature creates more headaches at times…ii definetly get the occoasional nozzle clog when i never got a nozzle clog when i only use factory settings but the trade off is more than worth it… imo carbon fiber is just a stunning material and when polished, omg!!!..i created something with it today for a very high end client of ours and they flipped for it…ii could never have given them an abs option they would laugh…material choice can not be understated…its a huge factor in the final appearance of your print…anyway, i now keep a few nozzles…i keep nozzles slightly enlarged for carbon fiber and wood and i use my stock nozzle for zabs…when i use abs i use a stock nozzle and regular zortrax settings (tthe same machine i bought) and when using a special fil i use a slightly larger nozzle and variable temp…this way there is zero trade off…i can have bith a stick m200nor a very versatile one…i can have a machine with zero problems but very limited or i can achieve amazing effects with (nnow that i use different nozzles)rreally no more problems…its a win win and i sacrafice nothing

#7

Can't wait to see the pics!!

#8

True.. But the "More options" must be done RIGHT.. That is what takes time.. They could put a bunch of options on the printer untested.. Wonder if people would be happy then.. lol 

Untested temperature adjustment? What would they have to test other than 'Yup, it adjusts the temp'? I understand what you're saying and to some degree agree, but it's not true for all features. As discussed in an old thread, it'd be easy to add an 'advanced' options menu with a "proceed at your own risk" warning.

I very much understand the concern on Zortrax's part of users messing things up and blaming them, but in my mind as long as Z properly cautions users that messing with those settings could negatively impact printing the blame isn't on Z. In the end I really can't help but think that filament sales is a pretty big part of their decision to lock everything down. 

Zortrax - if you are worried about filament sales (this is rhetorical, there's pretty little that would make me believe that you aren't) then I would say you're probably shooting yourself in the foot. Opening up the controls through an 'advanced panel' would allow advanced users to get the absolute most out of the printer, and it would dominate the entire space. With this we could make amazing prints with almost any filament and we would sing the praise of Zortrax all through the land.

And if your argument is that users would mess it up, then I am genuinely insulted that you think us users are that inept. And if you are going to keep it locked down, then you need to provide the filaments that have been promised. 

#9

Zortrax still wont give me back posting ability and i just got ANOTHER warning!!!..I cant for the life of me see what im doing wrong …they said the reason is “spamming”…unfortunately i think im done with this forum…i think the m200 is a fine machine but nothing is above criticism or improvement but if management doesnt want me posting my results with experimenting on a device made for people who experiment then ill just share my results on the private forum…this company is a complete joke…people like me who push the limits and openly share my results only make the m200 more attractive and more tempting to purchase…i only bought the thing in the first place because they promised me the ability to do what is now getting me banned for talking about… like i said, ill post on the private this company will be gone in a year…i can see what type of people im dealing with and they dont belong in this industry

#10

link to private forum?

link to your experimental material pics?

(would love to see carbon-fiber)

Zortrax still wont give me back posting ability and i just got ANOTHER warning!!!!..I cant for the life of me see what im doing wrong ...they said the reason is "spamming"...unfortunately i think im done with this forum..i think the m200 is a fine machine but nothing is above criticism or improvement but if management doesnt want me posting my results with experimenting on a device made for people who experiment then ill just share my results on the private forum...this company is a complete joke...people like me who push the limits and openly share my results only make the m200 more attractive and more tempting to purchase..i only bought the thing in the first place because they promised me the ability to do what is now getting me banned for talking about... like i said, ill post on the private this company will be gone in a year...i can see what type of people im dealing with and they dont belong in this industry

#11

Zortrax still wont give me back posting ability and i just got ANOTHER warning!!!!..I cant for the life of me see what im doing wrong ...they said the reason is "spamming"...unfortunately i think im done with this forum..i think the m200 is a fine machine but nothing is above criticism or improvement but if management doesnt want me posting my results with experimenting on a device made for people who experiment then ill just share my results on the private forum...this company is a complete joke...people like me who push the limits and openly share my results only make the m200 more attractive and more tempting to purchase..i only bought the thing in the first place because they promised me the ability to do what is now getting me banned for talking about... like i said, ill post on the private this company will be gone in a year...i can see what type of people im dealing with and they dont belong in this industry

I think you are getting warnings because you continually complain about how you are getting "Banned" when you are clearly not banned at all. There is something wrong with your computer or browser that needs to be fixed. A Ban would mean you cannot post at all throughout your account. Obviously in your last thread about this, Zortrax told you that they had done nothing to you before and that the problem is on your end. Please check your computer or even try a different one.

@LabRat, "And if your argument is that users would mess it up, then I am genuinely insulted that you think us users are that inept." well I have come across many people in my days of tech support how have done unthinkable things to printers because they could. Also that so many have missed a setting that we (as adept users) could never miss. 

-Michael

#12

I do understand that there are inept people out there. But if Z puts an advanced panels with proper warnings that the settings could adversely affect print quality (with a button to reset to defaults) then its on the user not Zortrax. And the stupid people will manage to mess things up with or without extra options.

@LabRat, "And if your argument is that users would mess it up, then I am genuinely insulted that you think us users are that inept." well I have come across many people in my days of tech support how have done unthinkable things to printers because they could. Also that so many have missed a setting that we (as adept users) could never miss. 

-Michael

#13

Lets put up a hypothetical just for the sake of it, This is what I could see happening based solely on the kind of calls I have made for other printers:

Customer: Hi there (insert name of company or technician here) I was using your printer, the Zortrax M200, and my nozzle is now clogged.

Support: Hi there, (Name of customer), could you tell me what filament you were using at the time?

Customer: I was using your green ULTRA-T filament.

Support: was there anything out of the ordanery when you were using the filament, was there excess dust or debers on the spool while the printer was running? did the temp drop suddenly mid print?

Customer: no none of that, the filament just wont feed.

Support: Were you using any advanced settings? Anything other than the recommended settings for ULTRA-T?

Customer: well yes I was, I have the temp set to 250 and the speed set to 120mm/s, (along with any other settings there may be)

Support: well there is the problem, your temp is too low and your speed is too fast! 

Customer: I set these because this is the temp I use on my (Insert name of terrible printer here) and it does not jam up the nozzle.

Support: Please reset the settings and remove the old nozzle for cleaning.

All this can take a day or two depending on how quick the customer responds to my emails, I have exchanged 18 emails in one day with a customer and got him back up and running (only took that many because his problem was actually the most complex I had ever had, it was inconsistent at best with the problems the printer was having). Then there are those who have taken 1 whole week to get back to me, and yes this happens more than you would think. Most customers get back to me the day after I have emailed them back, so some get frustrated when the printer is down for a week simply because they do not respond in a timely manner.

Now imagine this happening to every reseller and Zortrax at least 5 times a day 7 day's a week. Each call or support email could take anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour to process and complete, along with all the other activity's people like myself have to preform on a daily basis. 

What I am trying to point out is that sometimes logistically it is better to narrow the path that can be taken. As a tech, I love that the software is fairly well locked down because this limits the amount of confusion there can be on the customers side and the less calls I have to make the better. On a user side I do wish there were more options but I can get by without them.

-Michael

#14

It’s also difficult in regards to warranty.

If Zortrax would allow the advanced settings and you would screw something up (idk…run it at 350C for 3 days straight with a cover on it and then the extruder stepper dies)… Only few people would admit that they used the advanced settings with all the warnings and then insist on paying for the stepper out of their pocket…no…they would try to get the stepper replaced under warranty anyway…

#15

truth is somewhere in the middle. whatever you describe, support, rma cost etc, is (should be) statistically estimated and included within the price/margin of the company and the reseller. bad or exploiting users exist on any product market, from pc hardware to foods.

i respect that zortrax has set some boundaries that keep prints beautiful and it's usage safe, but i think that you have narrowed all your arguments on the filament aspect of the whole story which in the end is all about temperature control. at this point IMHO the most valid argument i read was what s1 said "if you dont allow us to use other kinds of filaments, please provide them yourself so that at the end it's like we dont have this limitation". so if we eventually (but soon) have a wider variety of consumables, that print so well on the m200, i think that noone would whine anymore...

but you overlook a bunch of other advanced slicer features that dont have to do with filament sales, and would help advanced users produce better prints, such us selective support positioning/removal and other stuff that people need and would only make this wonderful product even better with minimal impact on support/rma costs etc. and i trust that zortrax team is more than skilled enough to provide such solutions to us.

#16

Hello Voudas, I do not believe I have seen you with the reseller tags before, good to have you on board this lonely tag train!

-Michael

#17

myth says that whoever has red tag, also has better prints and more stable hotend temp... i had to test it out :p

#18

myth says that whoever has red tag, also has better prints and more stable hotend temp... i had to test it out :P

I've heard that is true.. :lol: :D

#19

Can confirm, parts coming out great on my machine!

#20

It's actually not that difficult, and here is a possible solution to your hypothetical problem:

Have the use of advanced settings void the warranty.

Lame, I know... But if that's what it takes to unlock this machine then so be it.

It's not very complicated to have the machine permanently indicate a void warranty... MCU's have lasting memory to keep track of that stuff. I already talked about that lasting memory when I suggested to Zortrax that the light settings should be remembered. Remembering the use of advanced-settings for the sake of showing a void warranty is just as easy to implement.

Assuming a user is going to demand warranty replacement after an obvious user screw-up is belittling.

It's also difficult in regards to warranty.

If Zortrax would allow the advanced settings and you would screw something up (idk…run it at 350C for 3 days straight with a cover on it and then the extruder stepper dies)… Only few people would admit that they used the advanced settings with all the warnings and then insist on paying for the stepper out of their pocket…no…they would try to get the stepper replaced under warranty anyway…