I just received my Zortrax M200 printer 3 days ago. I have been printing for about 15 hours total. I followed the start up guide and didn't notice any problems with the machine before I started.
I am now seeing major wear and tear on the small drive belt on the rear right side. I've attached a picture. Obviously this is unexpected and unusual, especially since this is a brand new machine with very limited use. I'm guessing this must be an issue with misalignment or tightening of the belt at the time of manufacture. Luckily, Octave Systems is sending me a replacement belt.
I just wanted to make you aware this problem was occurring.
Glad to hear you are getting a new part, the guys at Octave are great and you are in good hands, have you determined what was shaving that belt into an alpaca sweater?
I have no idea what caused it to wear so much in such a short time. I don't hear any strange sounds. I only noticed it when I glanced up at the belt...I do see that it kind of wobbles when it drives...that's what made me think it may have been an alignment issue. The machine still runs and prints fine, but I know at some point soon it would become a problem. But I'll be replacing it as soon as the new belt arrives in a couple of days.
I am slightly worried about this too. But I'll have to see what I can determine when I open it up to put the new belt in. The tech support at Octave Systems is not sure what the problem could have been...so I'm sort of on my own unless a Zortrax employee has seen this before and knows exactly what the problem is.
Alright guys...an update for you. I couldn't wait for the new belt to check it out. So I just took it apart to pull the old belt out. I think I found out what the problem was.
It seems there is a tear in the middle of the belt (pic attached), which probably caused it to wobble around and rub against the side of the pulleys. I checked the pulleys and they look just fine...no sharp edges or particles that would have cut the belt so sharply in this way. So, I think the tear had to have been there at the time of manufacture. Quality control probably missed it before assembly or didn't check in the first place. Made in China...what can you do....
Even a tear in the center at the factory wouldn't shred like that. There has to be something it is hitting. Its almost as the "grub" insert nut for the step motor is extruding or was extruding and has fallen out if you can't see it.
Even just a little bit the way the belt is tight and goes around the gear could possibly cause that to shred and push against the side of the stepper.
Cheers. Good luck figuring it out.
I had a boat engine that would eat belts no matter what we did. the alternator was slightly crooked so we put a new bracket on. Still ate belts. I sold the boat never figuring it out. Only thing that made sense was that the pulley on the crank shaft was slightly off but even the best mechanics I could find couldn't figure it out and short of replacing the engine I washed my hands of it.
If the stepper motor is off a slight bit I am guessing it may tear a belt up.
Even with the grub screws removed, it's difficult to reach them and I'm not comfortable with the force required to move them.
I did get the ones at the front, and it’s just a matter of moving them a bit and sliding the carraige back and forth until nothing touches.
It’s just the typical Chinese complete lack of focus assembly standards…
It must be hard for any company. You have to use them to compete, but your finished product suffers.
I have nothing against Chinese people at all, but QA is a mere suggestion to them at this stage.
You cannot move or remove it because it is glued by thread glue, this part is not serviceable or to calibrate by customer you will know it if you contact with support or reseller first, any modifications done by user without contacting support agent/reseller approval void the warranty.
It’s somehow viral on the forum that if one customer on X000 have rare problem and then everyone jump to check and try to find exactly same problem in they machines. This is same story as with people’s which try to diagnose the flu using google and then they think it have to be a cancer or Ebola.
But in this thread we speaking about problem which have probability of 0.0x% and so far as I know happened first time after 1.5 year, probably because pulley was assembled at wrong direction and pass multiple QC so your aligning of pulley method is worthless to solve problem which probably do not exist at your printer, you can ask the older Zortrax users from the kickstarter time small wear will exist but this is nothing serious.
You do not need only belt also whole motor have to be replaced because pulley is assembled there at wrong direction and new belt can end up same as this one.
For get new stepper motor please contact with our support or with Octave if you ordered from them.
You cannot move or remove it because it is glued by thread glue, this part is not serviceable or to calibrate by customer you will know it if you contact with support or reseller first, any modifications done by user without contacting support agent/reseller approval void the warranty.
It’s somehow viral on the forum that if one customer on X000 have rare problem and then everyone jump to check and try to find exactly same problem in they machines. This is same story as with people’s which try to diagnose the flu using google and then they think it have to be a cancer or Ebola.
But in this thread we speaking about problem which have probability of 0.0x% and so far as I know happened first time after 1.5 year, probably because pulley was assembled at wrong direction and pass multiple QC so your aligning of pulley method is worthless to solve problem which probably do not exist at your printer, you can ask the older Zortrax users from the kickstarter time small wear will exist but this is nothing serious.
You do not need only belt also whole motor have to be replaced because pulley is assembled there at wrong direction and new belt can end up same as this one.
For get new stepper motor please contact with our support or with Octave if you ordered from them.
Best Regards
Martin
OK mate,
So are you saying that I'm imagining wear on the side of the belt?
Both machines are running at the moment, so I'll take some pics for you when they're down.
If you aren't deliberately being openly rude, you do need to know you are coming off that way...seriously.
Couldn't you just say "this is normal, don't worry about it"?
@hobbymods, Martin said that such a situation happened in “0,001%” devices, so how he can said that “this is normal”? My 5 printers working around 1 year without this problem, and on the forum I have not found any topic with this problem. This is only machines and everything can happen, but if someone have this problem its doesn’t mean that you’ll have
So in my opinion you don’t need do anything and shouldn’t worry If your machine will be damaged you just need contact with reseller/zortrax and I’m sure they/we will solve your problem.
So are you saying that I’m imagining wear on the side of the belt?
Both machines are running at the moment, so I’ll take some pics for you when they’re down.
If you aren’t deliberately being openly rude, you do need to know you are coming off that way…seriously.
Couldn’t you just say “this is normal, don’t worry about it”?
I’m pretty much over dealing with you guys.
I cannot say if you have this problem or not until you do not contact with support and provide data, this is why you should submit a request - http://support.zortrax.com/hc/en-us then support agent will analyze it and help for you.
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"Couldn’t you just say “this is normal, don’t worry about it”?
I can, same as you can just say that maybe you have similar problem without adding words questioning manufacturing in China, QA etc. (overall I’m not Chinese).
You cannot move or remove it because it is glued by thread glue, this part is not serviceable or to calibrate by customer you will know it if you contact with support or reseller first, any modifications done by user without contacting support agent/reseller approval void the warranty.
It’s somehow viral on the forum that if one customer on X000 have rare problem and then everyone jump to check and try to find exactly same problem in they machines. This is same story as with people’s which try to diagnose the flu using google and then they think it have to be a cancer or Ebola.
But in this thread we speaking about problem which have probability of 0.0x% and so far as I know happened first time after 1.5 year, probably because pulley was assembled at wrong direction and pass multiple QC so your aligning of pulley method is worthless to solve problem which probably do not exist at your printer, you can ask the older Zortrax users from the kickstarter time small wear will exist but this is nothing serious.
You do not need only belt also whole motor have to be replaced because pulley is assembled there at wrong direction and new belt can end up same as this one.
For get new stepper motor please contact with our support or with Octave if you ordered from them.
Best Regards
Martin
Oh my god. This is bad news. I wasn't expecting this 3 days after I purchased the printer!! I purchased it for prototyping in our company at a critical time. I really can't afford downtime right now...damn.
What ticks me off more is that the tech support staff at Octave Systems seem COMPLETELY CLUELESS about these issues and the proper way of addressing them. I created a ticket with them and had a phone conversation with the tech support agent...he said he'll just ship out a replacement belt...he told me to just change out the belt myself. He assured me the problem would be fixed and that it was "so easy" and "straightforward" to do myself. And now, you're telling me it was probably assembled wrong and I'll have to have to send it in. If I hadn't posted on this forum and heard from you as to the root cause, I would have replaced the belt and continued to have the issue and maybe worse. So thanks for the correct information. Obviously I trust you more than the Octave Systems tech support.
On a side note, there is obviously a disconnect between your resellers and you. They need better training.
As this is a public forum I’d suggest confirming the cause before posting since something like this can have a large impact on a business. A member on here is a tech at Octave, so I’m sure he’ll be contacting you soon.
With that said, it is quite strange that they would just send a belt since a shredded belt is almost never the belts fault (printers and cars alike).
Martin, please be aware that comments such as the one you just replied to hobbymods come across as being quite rude and highly unprofessional. I understand that there is a language barrier, but something along the lines of “The issue seen by kmav is extremely rare, and it is unlikely that you’re printers have it as well. Please contact support and we will check to see if your printers are okay” would have been a much more professional response. Openly criticising your users for thinking that they might have a problem tends to be unappreciated.
On a side note, there is obviously a disconnect between your resellers and you. They need better training.
As I wrote this is rare problem seen first time this is why no any reseller know how to proper handle it because it never happen so far as I know.
Just contact with our support or with Octave requesting new stepper motor which is very simple to replace by yourself with belt will be a little more problems to doing by yourself but not impossible.
Oh my god. This is bad news. I wasn't expecting this 3 days after I purchased the printer!! I purchased it for prototyping in our company at a critical time. I really can't afford downtime right now...damn.
What ticks me off more is that the tech support staff at Octave Systems seem COMPLETELY CLUELESS about these issues and the proper way of addressing them. I created a ticket with them and had a phone conversation with the tech support agent...he said he'll just ship out a replacement belt...he told me to just change out the belt myself. He assured me the problem would be fixed and that it was "so easy" and "straightforward" to do myself. And now, you're telling me it was probably assembled wrong and I'll have to have to send it in. If I hadn't posted on this forum and heard from you as to the root cause, I would have replaced the belt and continued to have the issue and maybe worse. So thanks for the correct information. Obviously I trust you more than the Octave Systems tech support.
On a side note, there is obviously a disconnect between your resellers and you. They need better training.
OMG, you should calm down a little, your issue has been described as new and unusual, no one else has seen this big of a problem and to expect a VAR (value added reseller) to know every possible issue before it becomes an issue with a product designed and manufactured by someone else is clearly having unreasonable expectations, throwing "COMPLETELY CLUELESS" around only makes you look that way.
You did not say the printer was not working even though it looks like a cat lives inside it and the effort it will take to replace the belt and adjust a pulley and inspect the area to locate any interfering parts that could be causing this damage hopefully will not take you more than a couple of hours, if it is more than you can handle I feel certain the good people at Octave will correct the problem.
I think your expectations of how "hands off" 3D printing is are not in line with the realities of the industry, you list you have a MakerBot, you must have had to make adjustments and replacements if you used that printer at all.
The Zortrax is a wonderful machine and overall has fewer issues when used as designed than most all of the "desktop" models on the market today, how soon we forget the good old days of paper printers, copiers and fax machines and all the early troubles users had with them even after decades of refining the designs unexpected problems would surface.
So calm down, take a breath and lets us try to help you.
Ok an update: Actually, the printer did screw up during a print last night...the belt finally had too much. So, I called Octave again today and they will be sending out a new printer to me since I am in the 30 day return window. My experience with Octave sales (John) has been great. John said they will go through the new unit with a fine toothed comb so I don't have any issues this time.
Drew, you seem to have taken my description of and opinions about my experience rather personally enough to berate my post. I have just stated the facts. I have even commended both Octave and Zortrax when appropriate. I never said I had anything against Zortrax...I like the print quality of the printer...I even said the belt thing is probably a QC issue on the Chinese side. I could have returned the printer and purchased another brand but I'm sticking with Zortrax because I believe in its quality. But I think my initial reaction about my initial experience with Octave tech support is warranted given the facts.
For example, let me paint two scenarios for you:
1) I am a customer in Europe with this belt issue. I call Zortrax tech support directly and instead of just telling me to replace the belt, they solve the root cause immediately.
2) I am a US customer purchasing through a reseller. Their tech support keeps sending me belts for me to replace instead thinking about and addressing the root cause, which leads to continuation of the problem and more frustration.
I hope you see the difference. Even users on this forum, not connected to Octave or Zortrax (HeavenlyCreation, Andre and LabRat), immediately noticed that the belt shredding like this is very strange and that the real root cause must not be the belt. These people apparently fulfilled tech support's role...without these guys, I would not have kept questioning the root cause and continued posting. Its because of this that Martin was able to diagnose my issue so quickly. If I let it go and kept replacing the belt, the problem would have persisted past the 30 day return window and it would have been a more complicated situation. So, it is what it is...hence I was just frustrated that people on this forum wanted to track down the root cause whereas the Octave tech support agent I interacted with didn't even consider it.
Finally: kudos to Zortrax (Martin) for identifying the root problem quickly and kudos to Octave for sending me a new machine and scrutinizing it before they send it. For clarification to those that think I'm bashing Octave (Drew), let me say that I would buy from Octave again because their customer service (John) has been good.
And a thank you to all the people who helped on this forum.
