I recently purchased a Zortrax M200. I am an animated movies director, and I was planning to use it, among other uses, to print miniature accessories for animated puppet films. The 25 microns option made me choose M200; the best resolution for that price. We are looking for sharper results than the only « naked eye » use.
However, despite an instructions manual stating « 25 microns in advanced mode », there is no option under 90 microns in the Z-suite software.
Believe it or not, the seller (in Trideis shop in Brussels, Belgium) told me the 25 microns option was available already.
Have I been mislead?
I need a higher than 90 microns resolution printer.
Should I wait?
What would you do?
I have asked the same question to the official Zortrax customer support… No reply after 5 days. And the shop sellers basically just tell me I’m « too picky »!
Any feedback is welcome - I’m getting nervous about this.
I need a higher than 90 microns resolution printer.
Should I wait?
What would you do?
I have asked the same question to the official Zortrax customer support… No reply after 5 days. And the shop sellers basically just tell me I’m « too picky »!
You can read there that WiFi is dropped and 50 (or even less) microns is not on the list anymore.
So you have to buy a printer that is capable of doing the higher resolutions or live with it and blame somebody for the wrong product specs.
I explained to my reseller what is on the product specs and what is reality and asked for a 40% refund of the price.
I took some further explanations what it is about european consumer rights and a forward to the management but I got my 40% refund.
The story is just like this: Zortrax offered that features in their official product brochure that resellers used until summer.
And the features there are just good for cheating consumers at their decision of what printer they should buy.
If you look at UP! and Craftbot, the M200 is always ahead with a 0.1 'better' resolution and WiFi (in an early spec there was USB also).
Consumers are misleaded to pay a higher price for a printer that offers features (coming with later updates) that are dropped by Zortrax management long time ago.
So you don't have to be nervous, it won't change anything. You have to decide what you do and better not listen to that small minded Z-Fanboys with their important hollywood avatars. ;)
[sarcasm] Ohh, forgot that: You should be happy about having a more durable ribbon cable, just a important development of the Zortrax R&D team (management supported) [/sarcasm]
Z-Renegade is right on almost all of what he mentioned but the number is more like.01 microns IE: .10 to .09, and .15 to .14. you get the picture though.there are a few people on these forums that are a little more than fed up with some of the things they were promised and then taken away without Zortrax ever even trying.
Regardless of the features mentioned that will not ever come, the printer is still a good machine. If you are printing accessories for miniatures, how small are you talking about? Just because you can stack more layers into a part does not mean you will get quality at all. You need consistent material and feed speeds (which is something Zortrax does offer) and tinkering with opensource printers is one of the hardest things to get right if you are new to printing.
I would most defiantly inform your reseller that they sold you the machine with false advertising and ask for a discount (if you intend on keeping the machine) because that kind of crap cannot be aloud anywhere.
Z-Renegade is right on almost all of what he mentioned but the number is more like.01 microns IE: .10 to .09, and .15 to .14. you get the picture though.there are a few people on these forums that are a little more than fed up with some of the things they were promised and then taken away without Zortrax ever even trying.
Well, I'm in holiday mode, some accuracy is missing... :ph34r:
Your'e right and this makes it even more consumer misleading. It's actually 0.01 mm that Z claims to be ahead of the competition and in the link about the missing wifi above the master engineer explains that the difference between 0.09 and 0.05 (wich is 0.04mm) makes no difference at all!
Well - from what I've read, if you need to print and film miniature (2 or 3 cm long) props, it is definitely useful to get more resolution.
I just read Ultimaker 2 reviews; saying that the difference was huge between 100 and 40 microns... even more with 20 if you have the printing time on your hands (but for very small objects it makes sense); the layers are way less noticeable - that's what we're looking for. I know it won't be "perfect"... and as I'm a sculptor too, I'm not afraid of a bit of manual post-processing... but getting the most precise "home" quality available should be logical in my case.
So the M200 25 microns seemed nice... and indeed they misleaded me with false advertising, as in my first written inquiry about the machine, I specially said I was going to use the 0.025 mm option... and, after I asked to see a 25 microns printed sample in their shop, they just showed me a 90 microns sample... but said "yes, you can do 25 too!"
I really feel scammed. Hesitating now between asking a full refund or a discount. I know it's a very sturdy and easy to use machine, but I'm used to special effects softwares and I'm not too afraid of learning to use an open source one.
Ultimaker 2 is not that more expensive... and uses way cheaper filaments. The price difference M200 - Ult2 would be compensated after buying 10 Ultimaker filament spools...
Let's just hope the fight to be refunded won't be too long... but that should end like that, as I really don't have the machine capabilities I paid for.
do yourself and your pocket a favor and stick to the m200, it is honestly far superior to um2... and save some money for a sla/dlp machine for your 2cm prints...
I agree with voudas that the M200 is (far) superior to the UM2, but that's to be valued against two things (maybe more):
1. the UM2 is open to do whatever you want to do with it while the M200 has heavy brakes applied from the manufacturer wich is just their 'politics' and not necessary at all.
2. if the M200 does not do what is needed by your project it could be the best printer of the world (hello fan boys) but also useless to you (not a money saver at all).
as a tip: take a look at the Pharao Ed, for me it is the best printer when it is up to surfaces and accuracy and speed (don't know about the layer resolution, ask them they are nice guys).
To me it was useless because of it's build area (it's a delta printer, giving you a 14.5 square area for rectangle prints wich was far too small for me). And it's much higher priced!
There are few other machines that can make a part as smooth as the Zortrax does out of the box. That being said there was other options to add onto the Zortrax to make it more accessible. At this point I am not sure why Zortrax is so hostile to the Mod we all love to not talk about, It makes the machine so much better. I still buy and use a lot of the Z-materials but being able to use others in my inventory makes all the difference.
If you stick with the Zortrax (which is what I would recommend) then you should not look up this thing that modifies Zortrax's Temp because that would be bad! ;D
I recently purchased a Zortrax M200. I am an animated movies director, and I was planning to use it, among other uses, to print miniature accessories for animated puppet films. The 25 microns option made me choose M200; the best resolution for that price. We are looking for sharper results than the only « naked eye » use.
However, despite an instructions manual stating « 25 microns in advanced mode », there is no option under 90 microns in the Z-suite software.
Believe it or not, the seller (in Trideis shop in Brussels, Belgium) told me the 25 microns option was available already.
Have I been mislead?
I need a higher than 90 microns resolution printer.
Should I wait?
What would you do?
I have asked the same question to the official Zortrax customer support… No reply after 5 days. And the shop sellers basically just tell me I’m « too picky »!
Any feedback is welcome - I’m getting nervous about this.
Thanks!
Sacha
If you are new to 3D printing, how do you know that 90µ is insufficient for your needs? I've been printing for nearly 4 years and only once in a while do I ever need better than 200µ, and I've made some very small parts. 25µ may be a lot of headaches, especially for starting out. But that's just me, and of course everyone has their own projects' requirements. If you really do need 25µ I don't know if or when it will ever come to the M200.
Here are a few pics of my 3DSystems ThermoJet models. The resolution/layer height is 0.042. The real difference between this machine and Zortrax or other FDM is evident when printing sloped surfaces with small angles, like top of a ball. The ThermoJet will print close to a perfect ball, which would be problematic for the FDM's due to lower resolution. The wax also "blends" more between the layers. One problem with wax printers is deformation, which is rather large. I use my ThermoJet mostly for investment casting, the Zortrax for machine element models.
Fine layers have its place, as for investment casting sculptures etc., but I find that the Zortrax is more than good enough for my machinery designs. I rarely print finer than 0.14.
One thing to always remember, as a reseller it is their job to make something look like it is the best product (especially when dealing in $2,000 USD or regional equivalent). Take everything they say with a grain of salt, and look at the UM forums (I am assuming they have one) and other reviews that are not out right fanboy's boasting about UM. If I was them and you walked into my shop, I would show you the best model I had achieved on the machine and then leave out the fact that it may have taken 4 tries at the same object to get the desired result. (for those of you who do know me in real life this is far from what I actually do, but I am using this as an example of what I have seen at trade shows and other events).
Do not take the check book with you and digest the decision for a day to be sure of what you want to go with.
I have to admit, I was a little torqued when wifi and 25 micron res were advertised and not delivered upon. BUT the quality of this thing is phenomenal right out of the box and you really don't need wifi and 25 micron res. Granted, there is really no "tuning" you can do to get it any better than going slow and steady at .09, but the ease of use right out of the box (especially in a prototyping for my company) makes it great for an environment where older engineers want something just a little more to help them in new product design proposals.
We are getting a Lulzbot taz 5 for a little more customization to print some filaments with more strength for some intro to additive manufacturing, but the Zortrax is going to be our main printer for physical models for new products.
Edit: If you really want a greater than 90 micron res, the 2000 dollar price range is not going to be sufficient. Try 20,000.
As I remember, Zortrax had information about 25-50 microns (in future update).
Long story short, for the M200:
higher resolution than 0.09 - never
wi-fi - never
any other filament except Z abs, ultrat, hips and glass - never.
I might be wrong, though ...
Ok thanks everyone - I'll visit an ultimaker seller tomorrow and compare some sample to make my decision... Thanks again!
For this, the right answer is:
do yourself and your pocket a favor and stick to the m200, it is honestly far superior to um2... and save some money for a sla/dlp machine for your 2cm prints...
If you are new to 3D printing, how do you know that 90µ is insufficient for your needs? I've been printing for nearly 4 years and only once in a while do I ever need better than 200µ, and I've made some very small parts. 25µ may be a lot of headaches, especially for starting out. But that's just me, and of course everyone has their own projects' requirements. If you really do need 25µ I don't know if or when it will ever come to the M200.
That's where I'm at too.
My 2 "go to" settings are 0.19 and 0.29. I've used 0.14 once or twice, and 0.09 never at this stage.
This is just because I print for a living and don't often have time for experimenting with my machines, and when I do I'd rather have a rest from it.
Everyone I meet who has a different type of printer raves about the quality of my print.
If you are new to it, just try printing ABS in 0.19, I'm sure you won't be disapointed.
I like the M200. The closed off nature of the machine has made it one of my printers that I use every once in a while. When your talking about high resolution; you need to consider a different printer base (not FDM). I'm still amazed how well the M200 prints (I'd say it's tops in the FDM category for sure), however no fdm printer is going to compete with Stereo Lithography in terms of print res or detail. This leads me to the purpose of my response, which is, I print at 37-100µm for clients on my Titan1 (from Kudo3D) printer and this level is required for casting, jewelry, high end sculpts and similar. This printer will never print at 25µm, just a fact. Why? because it would take way much too time to setup a nozzle that fine and the engineering that fine to truely print at that resolution. If I'm wrong, call me a "Moneky's Uncle." I print at .09µm layer height when I use it. At 37µm on an SLA/DLP or similar type printer, you have to dial in a print recipe much more than you do with the M200, it's a bit trial and error and there in lies the trade off!
I like ABS for the Zortrax but wish I could experiment. For SLA, the resin's themselves for UV curing are still much in development. I can say this as I've used a lot of them. The M200 again, is great for it's intended purpose! It's great for making fairly high res prints and having a piece of mind that it's going to work. That I believe is there goal and they've delivered on that. There's always a BUT, and the butt in this manor is that, it's far and away from the resolution of SLA. But before someone jumps this thread response; It's the right tool for most general jobs and widgets. For art and smaller scale prototyping, look to a different tech. Again, my only HUGE complaint is that it's so closed down. However I realize it's not because they are evil, they are trying to control this kind new technology. But I disagree with their approach.