Hello everyone
I'm mostly focused on printing engineering parts that require precision in dimensions and details so what is the best Z-material suited for the job. off course warp resistance is an important factor too.
Thanks for participating
I have tried ABS, Ultrat and HIPS. I find that strengthwise they are equally good (or bad). Didn't see a lot less warping when using HIPS or Ultrat ompared to ABS. I use only ABS now, due to cost reasons and the fact that the extra price of the mentioned materials does not match their performance. You might try the new PETG material, should have less warping. I get all my ABS parts to fit, but you need a file, chisel and sandpaper to modify the objects post printing. ABS also has the advantage that you can join sections with ABS/acetone glue in the same colour as your model, and you can use it as filler to fill cracks etc.
I see, this is regarding warping and strength but what about dimensional accuracy
Hello everyone
I'm mostly focused on printing engineering parts that require precision in dimensions and details so what is the best Z-material suited for the job. off course warp resistance is an important factor too.
Thanks for participating
For those kind of parts I use Zultrat.
And to make it more accurate to the computer file dimensions I usually offset the holes .10 and the part .10. Usually i get it spot on but sometimes it is off .1. Best thing to do is print a test part and measure it then you can decide how much to offset the print.
I have a custom that makes his files abut .25 larger than what he needs and he is happy with the prints he gets.
Good luck
I'm mostly focused on printing engineering parts that require precision in dimensions and details so what is the best Z-material suited for the job. off course warp resistance is an important factor too.
The best (Z) material for engineering: It does not exist. I step back with that statement if you name me the best engineer for engineering. ;)
Basically it's all about a balance between your engineering needs (material requirements), shape (geometry) of your design and printing variables.
Basically the recommendation for printing a test object is a good one, do it after thinking about all other things.
The offset in Z-Suite advanced settings is a good adjustment for your dimensional accuracy, I mostly use .13 for Z-ABS and my designs (it again depends on shape and filament).
At no point you can avoid making adjustments, ABS shrinks more than Ultrat, both much more than a good PLA (no Z-Material tough).
The more shrinkage in a short time, the more warping and splitting (cracking of the printed object).
The more sharp edges and higher infill, the more shrinkage in a short time and this causes warping.
With other words, design your object for the least warping to keep it in shape, then adjust dimensional accuracy wich can be best done with Z-Suite offsets for inner / outer holes.
One needs some experience with the printer used (that's true for any printer) and this takes it's time.
Thanks alot for the suggestions poeple. I will try Z-ultrat and the offset option in Z suite.
Going back to motordude's post has anyone tried PETG filament?
It is supposed to have very minimal warping as a material while being strong and flexible, its draw back was the support removal so I want to know if anyone has tried the Z version of this material.
Your question is a very good one to discuss, as my primary use for the M200 is the production of components for my engineering designs. Over the short time that I have had my M200 (four weeks), I have found the following variables to be quite significant (and more significant than the material itself) and worth considering in part production:
1) In the design phase: No matter the material, whether it's Z-ABS, Z-Ultrat or Z-HIPS, my experience has been to use .20mm as a general offset spacing between mating parts. Any less gives me interference issues. Of course, dimensional variations from the original design (warping, shrinking, etc.) are always part of the equation with these thermoplastics. The question is how to anticipate them and reduce their effects.
2) How the slicing is accomplished in Z-Suite has revealed itself to be an "art form". That is, each part requires careful thought about what the final design intent requires. The Z-Suite settings are chosen based on these parameters. Unfortunately, for me, it seems to be an acquired intuition gained over time, rather than a concrete formula.
3) Positioning and orientation of the part in the printer with its raft and scaffolding is extremely important. Many times it is not intuitive until you have built an experience level based on your failures. I've had my fair share of those.
I hope that this is of help. At least, for me, this has been an important part of my "learning curve" with the M200 and I am happy to say that my parts fit, function and generally perform far better than they did four weeks ago.
Your question is a very good one to discuss, as my primary use for the M200 is the production of components for my engineering designs. Over the short time that I have had my M200 (four weeks), I have found the following variables to be quite significant (and more significant than the material itself) and worth considering in part production:
1) In the design phase: No matter the material, whether it's Z-ABS, Z-Ultrat or Z-HIPS, my experience has been to use .20mm as a general offset spacing between mating parts. Any less gives me interference issues. Of course, dimensional variations from the original design (warping, shrinking, etc.) are always part of the equation with these thermoplastics. The question is how to anticipate them and reduce their effects.
2) How the slicing is accomplished in Z-Suite has revealed itself to be an "art form". That is, each part requires careful thought about what the final design intent requires. The Z-Suite settings are chosen based on these parameters. Unfortunately, for me, it seems to be an acquired intuition gained over time, rather than a concrete formula.
3) Positioning and orientation of the part in the printer with its raft and scaffolding is extremely important. Many times it is not intuitive until you have built an experience level based on your failures. I've had my fair share of those.
I hope that this is of help. At least, for me, this has been an important part of my "learning curve" with the M200 and I am happy to say that my parts fit, function and generally perform far better than they did four weeks ago.
you are right. the problem is that every specific object printed reacts in a different way due to the different geometry. I purchased a good set of files and it helped me alot in mating different parts but indeed I learned to keep a .2 mm difference for mating and .5 mm for moving parts.
material characteristics has an affect design too and that is why I'm really interested in Z-PETG filament
I never tried UltraT, but I can recommend the HIPS, excellent finishing, excellent dimensional tolerances and no shrinkage of the material
I never tried UltraT, but I can recommend the HIPS, excellent finishing, excellent dimensional tolerances and no shrinkage of the material
What I know about Hips is that it is slightly better than ABS regarding warping. I got this from general search on this material even on different printers.How big are the parts you print?
I also make large engineering parts, usually have to split them to get them inside the printer, add small flanges and dowels
so I can re-locate when gluing them together.
I found that natural Hips is the best material so far for dimensional rigidity and accuracy.
I have recently discovered that there are several flavours of Hips, from different manufacturers, have now tried all that I have found so far.
Best one that I have used so far is from France
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181489174438?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is a pure white crisp material that resembles and feels like a blackboard chalk stick.
Makes natural Hips feel and look slightly oily and very slightly buttery yellow.
But it gives a very sharp and detailed print.
Made in China .....Just like everything else.
I also make large engineering parts, usually have to split them to get them inside the printer, add small flanges and dowels
so I can re-locate when gluing them together.
I found that natural Hips is the best material so far for dimensional rigidity and accuracy.
I have recently discovered that there are several flavours of Hips, from different manufacturers, have now tried all that I have found so far.
Best one that I have used so far is from France
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181489174438?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This is a pure white crisp material that resembles and feels like a blackboard chalk stick.
Makes natural Hips feel and look slightly oily and very slightly buttery yellow.
But it gives a very sharp and detailed print.
Made in China .....Just like everything else.
Well I'm talking about material for Zortrax so I can't use esun filament. However, how was the warping with HIPS when printing large parts
Well I'm talking about material for Zortrax so I can't use esun filament. However, how was the warping with HIPS when printing large parts
Why can't you use Esun filament ?
This is the filament I use with Zortrax M200 , at standard Hips settings.
Hips has good warp resistance, also, the Esun Hips filament tends to greatly reduce horizontal splitting on tall and thin sections.
What I know about Hips is that it is slightly better than ABS regarding warping. I got this from general search on this material even on different printers.How big are the parts you print?
I printed the cover of a control unit, length 150 mm, depth 60 mm height 2 cm and wall thickness 2 mm
Why can't you use Esun filament ?
This is the filament I use with Zortrax M200 , at standard Hips settings.
Hips has good warp resistance, also, the Esun Hips filament tends to greatly reduce horizontal splitting on tall and thin sections.
because supposedly other filament may not work well with the settings for Z materials. besides this voids the warranty
I printed the cover of a control unit, length 150 mm, depth 60 mm height 2 cm and wall thickness 2 mm
and how much warping did you face?
because supposedly other filament may not work well with the settings for Z materials. besides this voids the warranty
Supposedly....... Does that mean you did not try other filaments to find out for yourself ?
...... Voids the warranty.
What do you prefer ? ...... A Pristine warranty card or high quality prints..
You have to try out different filaments to find the one that works best for you.
and how much warping did you face?
I had no warping, since I used acetone +ABS on the plate of the printer, and I use all cover, even on the top
Supposedly....... Does that mean you did not try other filaments to find out for yourself ?
...... Voids the warranty.
What do you prefer ? ...... A Pristine warranty card or high quality prints..
You have to try out different filaments to find the one that works best for you.
I wouldn't waste my money on generic filament like E-sun when using a printer like Zortrax. I might try it later on after what you said.
I had no warping, since I used acetone +ABS on the plate of the printer, and I use all cover, even on the top
:lol: that makes a big difference. with these sittings even ABS will have less warping as well.