The side panels I have are clear (not tinted), and they come off very easily for access.
I see your point, still the m200 is marketed as ABS printer and it would work better for ABS if it was fully enclosed.
I think a lot of people will sooner or later buy the side panels because of warping issues which limit the accessibility about as much as a fully enclosed design would do.
Maybe even a bit more as they decided to make them dark to look cooler.
Just curious - what printer(s) do you own and use and which of the ones that you've actively used is your favorite?
Now, as I'm the self proclaimed king of procrastination, I still couldn't decide yet what to buy.
So yes, I’m still the guy without a 3D printer 
If you dig up my older posts you'll surely understand though how I landed here.
Thanks for that response. You have so many definite opinions, it seemed that you must have had a lot of 3D printing experience so I'l admit to being a little surprised. Have you ever thought of building your own from scratch?
Nah, I'm not a mechanical tinkerer. I actually just want the (non-existing) trouble free 3D printing experience. And in a nutshell, I tend to overthink things ;)
So yeah, I'm kinda stuck between m200 and Cubicon Single for a while and weighing these and other options over the last months, I learned some things and forged some opinions.
Starts to get a bit frustrating though, especially with things like the m300 announcement which could have solved my dilemma but ended in disappointment.
Jut don't wait too long to start. Back in the late 70's a member of our computer club kept procrastinating his 1st purchase lusting after the features in each announcement about the next new PC. I think he's still waiting for the best one to come out.
Other than unmodified access to other filiments, the one thing that really sells me on the Cubicon printers is that non-stick print bed.
When I first looked into it I kept refusing to believe you could just pick the part up after the print. I was completely sure they must have removed the part and then placed it back on the bed.
The less scraping the better in my book :)
I think maybe the bed cools down which causes a contraction in turn aids an extremely easy removal (Cubicon Single).
Frikkin magic is what it is.
Nah, I'm not a mechanical tinkerer. I actually just want the (non-existing) trouble free 3D printing experience. And in a nutshell, I tend to overthink things ;)
So yeah, I'm kinda stuck between m200 and Cubicon Single for a while and weighing these and other options over the last months, I learned some things and forged some opinions.
Starts to get a bit frustrating though, especially with things like the m300 announcement which could have solved my dilemma but ended in disappointment.
All mechanical things will have issues. My M200 has about 6000 printing hours on it and I have printed houndreds of parts, most of them 24hours + printing time. Very small fail rate, in most cases due to a clogged nozzle. Other than that, I have changed the ribbon cable, one perf. board and one heating plate-all under warranty. I have 3 "professional" 3D printers from 3DSystems, and these are much less reliable than the M200. When new they were about 50k USD, each. I think there are issues every 500 hours printing time and they require quite a bit of regular maintenance. When I looked to buy a FDM printer, I also checked out different options. Most printers were junk, you needed to fettle with them endlessly to get them to work, the printing result were shite and they only, for some reason, printed those stupid vases to show their "quality". Then came the M200, great results out of the box. Get a M200, it's truly a great printer.
I talked about not wanting to build a printer from scratch. A bit of maintenance is a different topic.
Anyway, I came here for a reason, mainly the m200's reputation to be as close to a trouble free printer as possible.
My main concern with it is that the size is a bit too small for (some) of my needs. Like I said before: if it had the build size of a Craftbot, I’d most probably already own a Zortrax.
There are a few other things (heat bed connector, issues with nozzle height detection, not fully enclosed chamber, no PLA support without mods) that I don't like but that I don't consider to be showstoppers.
And then there's the software topic. Actually I love that Zortrax offers a dedicated slicer which is optimized for the printer and the filaments that Z offers.
However I'm concerned by Zortrax' attitude of forcing people into using their software and even threatening people who could end their software monopoly.
And even if I could use a different slicer (which I'm pretty sure I could), this would leave me in a lone wolf scenario where I'd need to figure everything out myself.
In contrast to this, other companies like Raise3D or HyVision (Cubicon) offer their own optimized slicers but still allow or even support people to use other slicers.
All of this would be less of an issue if Z-Suite would work perfectly and allowed some tweaking in the cases it doesn't. However neither is the case and all of Zortrax's actions in the last months make clear that they won't change their attitude until hell freezes over.
Actually everything Zortrax did lately (Inventure delay and price increase, m300 announcement without any improvement but insane pricing, dropping ABS for Iventure and m300) seems to confirm the decision better not to invest in a company that either hasn't the will or the ability to develop and improve their closed ecosystem.
This being said, my personal decision list Cubicon Single vs. m200 (and yeah, not based on 1st hand experience)
- Print Quality
Cubicon is on par, even superior for large ABS prints due to enclosed heated chamber (plus you can tweak and select your slicer)
- Build size
Cubicon has larger and more usable build size [240x190x200mm] than m200 [200x200 x180mm] and allows raftless printing
- Ease of operation
Cubicon wins due to fully automatic calibration and easy print removal.
- Slicer
Cubicon wins. While CubiCreator is also not perfect, it allows tweaking of any possible parameter. And you can use any other slicer. They even offer S3D profiles.
- Material support
Cubicon wins again as it supports ABS, PLA and TPU out of the box.
- Pricing:
m200 wins hands down. Cubicon costs at least 1000€ more.
- Maintenance costs
I feel that m200 wins as well. You can exchange/repair most parts while there are no spare parts available for the Cubicon expect for the build plate and (whole!) extruder
- Modding/repair possibilities
Zortrax’ construction is still closer to a Reprap while the Cubicon is designed like an industrial laser printer. So mods of the m200 are possible (and available) while for the Cubicon, this seems unlikely.
- Noise / smell
Cubicon is said to be bit louder even though it’s fully enclosed. Then again, it has a HEPA filter. So let’s say advantage Cubicon.
- Energy costs
m200 wins. Cubicon’s heated chamber takes its toll here.
- Space requirements
m200 wins. Cubicon Single is very large for its print size.
- Future prospect
Zortrax is very big in the European market. The m200 seems to sell like sliced bread and they make a lot of profit with filament. Then again, there is no progress visible for the m200 or a direct successor announced.
Inventure and m300 seem to target a completely different market with unclear prospect. Inventure is delayed by at least a year. Actually, it seems unlikely that either will be a big success.
HyVision is still pretty unknown in Europe with only a few distributors/dealers. Yet they already successfully introduced a 2nd product (Style) as downsized and cheaper version of the Single.
Also there are two new products announced and shown at fairs where the Single Plus is a direct successor of the Single and the Lux is a SLA/DLP printer with a different target audience.
@deadbeef
Seems you are specialist of things which you never used then please at next post review for me:
bugatti veyron vs lamborghini aventador
iPhone 7 vs next gen Samsung nexus
Owe it, use it, break it, review it. Otherwise do not waste forum space for marketing bullshit which you saw somewhere.
I think I have proven my ability to analyze binary streams, so you shouldn't underestimate by ability to analyze any other kind of information ... or other people's intention ;)
Anyway, I had the very same discussion with the bitter old man before and the same arguments prevail: some people may only rely on 1st hand experience but this means neglecting any kind of higher education and science. Well, actually the whole idea of human civilization. I would not want to live in a world where only 1st hand experience counts. But if you feel comfortable with that and all the obvious consequences, I wish you all the best. I just wonder if 3D printing will be your primary interest in a world without electricity, medicine or well, 3D printers.
@deadbeef
Seems you are specialist of things which you never used then please at next post review for me:
bugatti veyron vs lamborghini aventador
iPhone 7 vs next gen Samsung nexus
Owe it, use it, break it, review it. Otherwise do not waste forum space for marketing bullshit which you saw somewhere.
Ah there is the 82 we all love!
Dont be such a c***. If you knew anything about Dead, you would know he is far more informed then you have ever been. Maybe you should take your high horse and ride off.
Ah, but now that Mike is here, we finally have a guy who used both, m200 and Single and could provide some 1st hand impressions :)
Ah, but now that Mike is here, we finally have a guy who used both, m200 and Single and could provide some 1st hand impressions :)
Yes, here is my full line up of currently used printers:
M200
Raise3D N1,N2,N2+
Afinia H800
Afinia H479,480 (basically the same)
Up mini, and mini 2
I cannot post the pictures of the N2+ prints we have in this forum, maybe Ill finally use my twitter account to post pictures.. To give you an idea though, 12x12x24 is the build space and we use it as often as we can. The same goes with the M200, we use the full build space quite often without much trouble (some trouble when the slicer acts up). I do not feel the need to make another essay length comparison or rant just yet, if requested enough I can make a new post being that this is a Cubicon vs Zortrax thread.
I was actually somewhat sure that you also had access to a Cubicon Single (at work). Thought I remember you criticized the filament path, posted a picture of a print using flexible filament etc.
Does my memory fail me?
I was actually somewhat sure that you also had access to a Cubicon Single (at work). Thought I remember you criticized the filament path, posted a picture of a print using flexible filament etc.
Does my memory fail me?
We test around 15 printers a year, sometimes more, and I did have the Cubicon single and large dual nozzle version. We did not like them because of a number of reasons which we reported up the food chain to and they decided against handling the machines. A number of people have had success when using the machine but we could foresee a number of issues we would face with our customer base. That and the price was too high for most of the clients we cater to.