Just FYI - Here is a comparison of the Cubicon Single and Zortrax M200
Used Cubicon's own slicing software, printed at 100 microns with ABS
Zortrax was printed at 140 microns with ABS
So the lighter one is the Cubicon? The ringing artifacts are somewhat surprising for a machine with such a good reputation.
Sure the speed wasn't a bit too high? And why didn't you remove the supports?
This video show it a little better DB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpuZCFmvsp8
Hi Andy,
As I could see the daher grey was printed on a Zortrax and the lighter was printed on Cubicon. Am I right?
Olivier
It would be helpful to know which is which.
It would be helpful to know which is which.
The light grey is Cubicon, the dark grey is Zortrax
Thank you, it's great to see our beloved M200 comparing so well vs the competition on a real-world part like this.
Julia ~ How does your Raise N2 compete with the M200 in your humble opinion? Kind Regards - David
Julia ~ How does your Raise N2 compete with the M200 in your humble opinion? Kind Regards - David
Every printer has its strengths and weaknesses. I enjoyed the N2, especially its wifi, its super-easy raft and support removal, and its quiet operation for a while, but eventually stopped using it due to air-printing failures with soft materials caused by its poor feeder, and air-printing failures with PLA/PHA and some PLA caused by its all-metal hot end. Print adhesion was also a bit iffy at times and critically-dependent on first layer height. I never tried ABS on it so I don't know how well it does there. I bought a third-party extruder which is supposed to completely fix the feeder problems but haven't been motivated to find the time to set it up. It does seem to have better X-Y resolution than the M200 (prints fine details that the M200 doesn't), but this may be more of a slicer thing than a hardware thing.
Part of the allure of the N2 was having access to all those myriad printing parameters in the slicer, but in reality every time I messed with the default profiles it only made things worse.
I thought I'd make good use of dual extrusion for dedicated support material, but the Raise slicer's support turns out to be so easy to remove that there's not much point; I've removed the nozzle from the second extruder because it was causing problems. Multi-material printing might be fun to explore someday, but not a priority right now.
I think it's a good printer, and it's good to have on hand in case I need anything that requires its build volume, but the reality is that it's sat idle for the past 3 months while my two M200s crank out print after print, day after day, with pretty much any material I want and very, very few failed prints.
Every printer has its strengths and weaknesses. I enjoyed the N2, especially its wifi, its super-easy raft and support removal, and its quiet operation for a while, but eventually stopped using it due to air-printing failures with soft materials caused by its poor feeder, and air-printing failures with PLA/PHA and some PLA caused by its all-metal hot end. Print adhesion was also a bit iffy at times and critically-dependent on first layer height. I never tried ABS on it so I don't know how well it does there. I bought a third-party extruder which is supposed to completely fix the feeder problems but haven't been motivated to find the time to set it up. It does seem to have better X-Y resolution than the M200 (prints fine details that the M200 doesn't), but this may be more of a slicer thing than a hardware thing.
Part of the allure of the N2 was having access to all those myriad printing parameters in the slicer, but in reality every time I messed with the default profiles it only made things worse.
I thought I'd make good use of dual extrusion for dedicated support material, but the Raise slicer's support turns out to be so easy to remove that there's not much point; I've removed the nozzle from the second extruder because it was causing problems. Multi-material printing might be fun to explore someday, but not a priority right now.
I think it's a good printer, and it's good to have on hand in case I need anything that requires its build volume, but the reality is that it's sat idle for the past 3 months while my two M200s crank out print after print, day after day, with pretty much any material I want and very, very few failed prints.
Thank you for sharing Julia. ;-) -David
Cubicon sells two printers : is it small or large printer that was used for this comparison ?
Cubicon Style ( +/- 1600€) or Cubicon 3DP-110F ( +/- 2800€) ?
This shows once again that the M200 is a great printer that prints its job well without difficulties !
Cubicon sells two printers : is it small or large printer that was used for this comparison ?
Cubicon Style ( +/- 1600€) or Cubicon 3DP-110F ( +/- 2800€) ?
This shows once again that the M200 is a great printer that prints its job well without difficulties !
Cubicon Single was used for this print. I heard their smaller "Cubicon Style" version isn't all the great.
I'm still not sure if this one example is doing the Cubicon Single justice. There are quite a few very favorable reviews and even more in depths comparisons with the Zortrax and I haven't heard anybody complaining about the Single's (or Style's) print quality. Again, the shown example seems to be mainly plagued by strong ringing and I haven't seen that on any other Cubicon print before. So it could be an issue of too high speed or a problem of this specific machine.
Also note that lower side looks strange. Like it was printed on the bed, but it's still not fully flat. So maybe the whole part started vibrating and another orientation or a raft would have cured both issues (lower surface and ringing).
BTW: The only reported issue of the Style is that it doesn't have the heated chamber of the Single and therefore has some issues with ABS adhesion and warping while the Single is said to be essentially free of (ABS) warping issues.
Still, when comparing with the m200, the Style is probably a fairer comparison as it's about the same price range. And while the print area is smaller (raftless 15x15x15 cm vs. raft only 20x20x18cm), it features quite a few things that the m200 doesn't (fully automatic calibration/leveling, air filter, wide support for materials, possible to use with third party slicers etc.).
I also read and viewed the reviews of the Cubicon Single and i completely agree with what you are saying DeadBeef. I think it may have been printed at high speed as on the Zortrax that part takes 13 hours. I was told this part only took 10 hours. The thing that is tantalizing about the Cubicon is you can print with PLA aswell as ABS. I was told by using Simplify 3D the prints come out a little better. I opted for Cubicons own software as it was mainly for test. I am still optimistic about the Cubicon.
The thing that is tantalizing about the Cubicon is you can print with PLA as well as ABS
You can print PLA (and many other interesting and useful materials) on the M200, too. I do it every day, with excellent results.
Sure, but you need to work around three issues to perform raftless PLA printing (temperature setting, hotend issues, raft/perfboard trickery) while the Cubicon even supports flexible material out of the box.
And yes I know, you have these workarounds at hand, but needing to tweak your printer to perform something basic as PLA printing is still ... meh. Also each of this addons (which also includes the side panels) diminishes the price difference to the Single a bit more.
Plus the Single fulfills the Zortrax's original promise to print large ABS models without warping while Zortrax seems to give up ABS (well, at least for the m300). And then there's the HEPA filter and the coated bed which makes removal of prints so much easier.
While I fear I have uttered this before my main concern with the Single are its sheer size (boy, it's big for the print area) and the fixed nozzle which kinda forces you to exchange the full extruder if the nozzle is damaged.
Also with the Single Plus to be released in the 4th quarter or so, buying a Single now involves the risk of having the "old" model shortly after purchase - most probably including a hefty loss in value.
Then again, the Cubicon is currently on sale for 2659€ (including VAT) at iMakr in the UK (N2 as well for ~2707€). That's tempting.
So, buy one and enjoy! Why hang around the Zortrax forum plugging another printer?
Well you know my Zortrax affiliation better than most. And sure, I'm the uncrowned king of procrastination.
Which, if you think about it, is something that should make you rather happy.
Raftless is not very practical, but it's something I rarely ever want or need to do; anything else - printing PLA, nylon, lignin, algae, PP, whatever (with raft) - is set & forget. Once the mods are installed they're no longer "workarounds", they're just part of the machine. You put an aftermarket doo-dad on your car to make it go faster, you don't agonize about your car having needed a "workaround", you just enjoying going faster.
I have no need of a HEPA filter as I rarely print with ABS. Don't know how removal of prints from the bed could be "so much easier"; print removal from the M200 perfboard is never an issue for me.
Personally, I don't like printers that put a box around everything - I like the visibility and access of the M200.
I see your point, still the m200 is marketed as ABS printer and it would work better for ABS if it was fully enclosed.
I think a lot of people will sooner or later buy the side panels because of warping issues which limit the accessibility about as much as a fully enclosed design would do.
Maybe even a bit more as they decided to make them dark to look cooler.