Full infill is not 100% !?

Hello,

I've had my M200 for 2 weeks now, and I am very please with the ease of use of this machine (mostly compared to my previous Ultimaker).

But everything is not still perfect : I noticed that "full infill" is not a real 100% infill.

[url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=111438P3021855.jpg]mini_111438P3021855.jpg[/URL]   [url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=776632P3021852.jpg]mini_776632P3021852.jpg[/URL]

This causes me issues, when I want to post-process some mechanical parts (like threading some M3, M4, M5 or M6 holes).

It may also present liquid leaks (mineral-oil or water) on some hydraulic prototypes.

Does anyone has a solution for this ? Or maybe it is an issue with my printer ?

Thanks'.

That’s normal. The full infill setting is just a high density mesh. I think if it would fill the whole thing it would warp too much and also take forever…

The UP/Afinia does the same thing.

I thread holes all the time and never had issues… There is still some meat around the holes. Are you making them too small, maybe?

Yep, full infill doesn't mean 100% infill, but -

infill is made only in solids,

every part (i.e. a hole) of a whole element is printed with it's border around, so there will be no leakage,

..unless something is broken :)

That's normal. The full infill setting is just a high density mesh. I think if it would fill the whole thing it would warp too much and also take forever...

The UP/Afinia does the same thing.

I thread holes all the time and never had issues… There is still some meat around the holes. Are you making them too small, maybe?

Ok. I will try to change dimensions... but the "meat" arround holes does not seem to be very "large" ...

By the way, is it possible to adjust this thickness of walls ?

Yep, full infill doesn't mean 100% infill, but -

infill is made only in solids,

every part (i.e. a hole) of a whole element is printed with it's border around, so there will be no leakage,

..unless something is broken :)

You are right, but if I need to drill a new hole on a part that took several hours to print, it is not possible : there will be leakage... :(

Anyway, thanks' for these precisions.

Zeb.

Drilling through a 3D print to attach screw isn't advised. It will work to attach to a wall or something but adding a threaded hole or regular hole into the design is the best way and then add more layers to the surface would make it thicker and stronger there. 

If I have to screw something through a piece I add a hole and then heat sink a metal threaded insert. Works perfectly. 

Sorry, there are limitations. 

I did print a couple solid blocks and screw down into them to hold to a bottom of a bed. Luckily it wasn't for moving and screwed in nicely but I wouldn't trust it to hold under any other circumstances. 

When I print with ABS with the setting set to full I get a "solid part".  But when I print in Ultra-T I DON'T get a "solid part" it looks more like the ABS "full" with (small holes about the width of the extruded path).

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah50/William_Kirk/Ultra%20T_zpsvns8yiee.jpg

I do not recall a difference between ABS and ultrat on my prints.

Did you compare that on the exact same part?

The one on your photo seems so flat that it probably just prints the top

and bottom layers and doesn’t do an infill at all.

I do not recall a difference between ABS and ultrat on my prints.

Did you compare that on the exact same part?

The one on your photo seems so flat that it probably just prints the top

and bottom layers and doesn’t do an infill at all.

I have not made the same part in ABS but infill is infill why would it change.   The part is flat because I stopped it after seeing that it was not solid. Final height is 1/4".  I wonder if I use ABS setting with Ultra-T filament.  I wonder what the temp differance is.

I have not made the same part in ABS but infill is infill why would it change.   The part is flat because I stopped it after seeing that it was not solid. Final height is 1/4".  I wonder if I use ABS setting with Ultra-T filament.  I wonder what the temp differance is.

Temp is different.. Infill should be the same. I print with ABS full and still have small spaces..

I have not made the same part in ABS but infill is infill why would it change. The part is flat because I stopped it after seeing that it was not solid. Final height is 1/4". I wonder if I use ABS setting with Ultra-T filament. I wonder what the temp differance is.

Please print the same part with the two filaments. It doesn't have to be big prints and you can abort them as soon as the infill is visible... Then post the pics here.

It would be interesting to see the comparison.

As I said… I don’t think there is a difference.

Temp is different.. Infill should be the same. I print with ABS full and still have small spaces..

how much temp diff ?  Will it work at all?

Have you seen a differance with infill from ABS, Ultra T or Glass?

What Kyle is saying that the ultrat profile and the Abs profile are only different in the temperature (to match the properties of the materials). The infill is the same on both.

I wish the "Full" infill was truly full also.  My guess is they don't offer it because it requires knowledge to know when that will cause a print to warp badly or not.  Zortrax seems to have made "ease of use" one of their primary targets.  IMO, that's may be worth it in terms of how much happier the general user will be for not being able to cause their prints to fail.

However, I suppose Zortrax could just add a disclaimer dialog box like they do when you don't use supports to warn that "full infill" is not a recommended setting.  It is useful to have parts that can be machined, drilled and tapped and to not worry about them getting crushed or over stressed, which is easier to achieve with truly full infill.

It may also present liquid leaks (mineral-oil or water) on some hydraulic prototypes.

If you want something leak proof you probably shouldn't use an FDM printer.. 

no, you shouldn`t

[url=http://minus.com/i/mt2V12kQ3TBS]jmt2V12kQ3TBS.jpg[/URL]

That piece is Full infill 0.09 Layer height

Interesting test Begeles2000. Did you try to post process your test part with Acetone ?  (I hope this can make it leak-proof)

Printing with 100% infill is not possible for the ABS, the print will be strongly deformed, further due to lack of cooling prints can be "swollen".

Interesting test Begeles2000. Did you try to post process your test part with Acetone ?  (I hope this can make it leak-proof)

Yes, post processing the part with acetone (I dipped it once in acetone and let it dry) totally solved the problem.

Printing with more layer hight (0.14, 0.19) increases the leaking also.

The problem using acetone (at least bathing the piece in acetone) is that changes the tolerances when i need to make one piece fit in another

jmt2V12kQ3TBS.jpg

nice aerator though :)

I've just made a prototype for a rotary seal : It works perfectly with mineral oil. Didn't notice some oil leakage.

Nb: I used a small paint brush to pass some acetone on the internal cylinders faces. This has 2 functions :

- prevent leakages

- make the O-rings (piston) slide on a smooth surface

With this method, I did not notice a change in tolerances... But I'll check it again, when I'll disassemble it.