M300: Is there really any point to a larger print volume?


#1

I can't even make large items print successfully on my M200 without shrinking, cracking, peeling, warping, what's the point of a bigger print volume?

I use almost exclusively Z-Ultrat, FWIW...


#2

You have the side covers? Those are a must!


#3

You know its funny, a year ago a lot of us were just begging Zortrax to make a larger M200. Part of that was because the Zortrax was a stable unit and it seemed like the software just kept getting better and better. Then all this other stuff happened and the desire for such a product dropped because it seemed like the software had peeked at a lower bar then we all imagined it would. Now we have had the same machine for a few years with only a few minor improvements, most of which are UI adjustments and tune up's, which leaves us all shrugging at the price of the M300. 

Zortrax may have missed their window because of the blunder with the Inventure. I really hope they can do something to improve the M300 or just drop the price to make it more attractive. Simply being bigger is not enough now.


#4

I can't even make large items print successfully on my M200 without shrinking, cracking, peeling, warping, what's the point of a bigger print volume?

I use almost exclusively Z-Ultrat, FWIW...

The key to larger prints are a covered printer, low infill, thin walls.

You could also try HIPS or think about some mods.


#5

I have had very good results my printer has side doors and top cover with temperature control I can do much bigger things now without warping a top cover with control is a must


#6

@gadgetstogo :

you say :

" top cover with temperature control "

What temperature do you keep in the enclosure ?


#7

Are there any good how to guides as well??

Cheers

Andy


#8

I am very happy with the M300, my only disappointment is that I can't do any Ultrat or ABS parts. It would be nice to be able to do some small parts in the M300 in ABS.

The M300 is very good but limited to materials, so I find the M200 is still is doing most of my work.

It would be nice to be able to print multiple small parts at once in Ultrat or ABS on the M300,

as I could fit more than twice the amount of parts per print in the M300 bed compared to the M200 bed


#9

It would be nice to be able to print multiple small parts at once in Ultrat or ABS on the M300,

Just curious, what holds you from printing with Ultrat or ABS?


#10

Just curious, what holds you from printing with Ultrat or ABS?

in the Z-Suite for M300 the choice of filaments does not include ABS or Ultrat


#11

in the Z-Suite for M300 the choice of filaments does not include ABS or Ultrat

I see. and you think if you feed other filaments  (for ex. an ABS rated for 240-260° at PET-G profile) the printer would recognize it and start vomiting?


#12

@gadgetstogo :

 

you say :

" top cover with temperature control "

What temperature do you keep in the enclosure ?


I change it quite frequently depending on the size of the print the bigger the print the hotter the temperature I am running most of the time sad about 90 degrees and the temperature right at the play is about 110

#13

I am very happy with the M300, my only disappointment is that I can't do any Ultrat or ABS parts. It would be nice to be able to do some small parts in the M300 in ABS.

The M300 is very good but limited to materials, so I find the M200 is still is doing most of my work.

It would be nice to be able to print multiple small parts at once in Ultrat or ABS on the M300,

as I could fit more than twice the amount of parts per print in the M300 bed compared to the M200 bed

I agree Carbon1..... my interest in an M300 would be to print multiple parts (overnight) BUT I need the capability to do it in Z-(affordable)ABS.

Right now I need to print 1800 of the same small item ASAP. This item in groups of 4 fill my M200 print bed footprint yet only take 4 hours and 30 minutes to print. So I'm losing a big chunk of night time printing.  On an M300 print bed I can fit 9 of the same item. If only an M300 would allow printing in z-ABS.........

M200vsM300.jpg


#14

Where there is a will, there is a Z-temp.


#15

I agree Carbon1..... my interest in an M300 would be to print multiple parts (overnight) BUT I need the capability to do it in Z-(affordable)ABS.

Right now I need to print 1800 of the same small item ASAP. This item in groups of 4 fill my M200 print bed footprint yet only take 4 hours and 30 minutes to print. So I'm losing a big chunk of night time printing.  On an M300 print bed I can fit 9 of the same item. If only an M300 would allow printing in z-ABS.........

Wanted to write a post on this but haven't gotten to it.

Right now on the m200, I have a part that I can only fit one on the table.... on the m300 I can fit 5.......but can't because of the material limitation

The primary use case for large format printers in commercial space is NOT for large format prints. It's for batch processing. For example, right now I have to return to the printer, take out the part, reset up including cleaning table, select a new print if different, start the print, wait for the printer to reheat for 5 minutes, watch that the print starts correctly....now multiply by N printers. Huge time kill... which is why print fab houses print in large single print batches. The fact the M300 can't do this in z-abs, z-ultrat and z-pcabs...is a huge value loss.

Another issue with the M300 is it can't serve as a stand-in for the m200; the m300 is a special use printer, not a stand-in upgrade to the m200. I can't use the M300 as a m200 when printing z-abs, z-ultrat, and z-pcabs along side the m200 printers. Makes the m300 way more expensive as a result. Part of what you pay for is the "ecosystem", but it's broken between m200-m300 (one of the big things in business is customer retention, the divide between the machines doesn't do that).

Also for common z-oriented parts, you can print many large format prints in z-abs, z-ultrat, z-pcabs..... particularly Z axis oriented parts (tall parts).  On the m200, I have to lay parts flat and diagonal on the table, when the optimal origination is in the Z, because the the z-axis isn't enough.... but m300 not an option in many cases because of the material limits. Limitation resulting in value loss.

It's probably easily fixable (copy m200 material profiles to m300), so I hope Zortrax considers doing so.

On a side note, concerned about not seeing the improvements on the m300 not being incorporated back into the m200. Ive noticed m300 allows for coarse / fast print option but not available on m200, even though prints on the m200 take many many hours. I'm hoping the development of features to m200 z-suite doesn't take a back seat to the m300, think it would be a mistake.


#16

I agree Carbon1..... my interest in an M300 would be to print multiple parts (overnight) BUT I need the capability to do it in Z-(affordable)ABS.

Right now I need to print 1800 of the same small item ASAP. This item in groups of 4 fill my M200 print bed footprint yet only take 4 hours and 30 minutes to print. So I’m losing a big chunk of night time printing. On an M300 print bed I can fit 9 of the same item. If only an M300 would allow printing in z-ABS…

M200vsM300.jpg

Due to the cost and the limitations of the machine, it’s Probably more ideal to just buy two m200 units instead of that m300.


#17

Due to the cost and the limitations of the machine, it's Probably more ideal to just buy two m200 units instead of that m300.

I think David has 6 M200's right now.. He's an animal!!


#18

An m200 "Extended" (following Ultimaker nomenclature) with increased height would have been an option ... maybe still is.

However, I had preferred an m200+ with a slightly increased width following the Ultimaker concept. Since when dealing e.g. with smallish handheld cases,  printing the parts flat on the bed is much preferrable but the 20x20 bed (not considering the raft) is a severe limitation there. Even the slightly larger bed of an Ultimaker (22.3x22.3) would have helped a bit considering diagonal orientation.

Anyway, I wonder if the m300 sells as good as Zortrax expected. Street prices including VAT are getting closer to 4000€ now but that was to be expected and is not necessarily an indication of lack of success. As IMHO this is still too much money for what it is.

Also for common z-oriented parts, you can print many large format prints in z-abs, z-ultrat, z-pcabs..... particularly Z axis oriented parts (tall parts).  On the m200, I have to lay parts flat and diagonal on the table, when the optimal origination is in the Z, because the the z-axis isn't enough.... but m300 not an option in many cases because of the material limits. Limitation resulting in value loss.