Material not extruding half way through print

Support&troubleshooting Zortrax M200
1

Hey, 

prints have been:

ABS Black

Full

0.14 layer

angle 20 degrees

fan auto. 

I have had issues with the material not extruding out of the nozzle part way through prints. Seems to load the filament fine but then generally will stop extruding material at some random point through the print.  The gear will have eaten into the filament.  Applying pressure helps it push through again.

I had printed a run of parts and had no issue. Then put in a new roll of filament.  Used the same file to print some more parts and the issues began.  

i have done the following to track the bug:

-I have checked the file and it has no errors. i have also tried new files with the same problem occurring

-Cleaned the nozzle in acetone over night.  Ran material through the barrel without the nozzle to make sure no bits have been clogging it up.

- Tried another new roll of abs, (purchased at the same time as the previous roll) 

-I have now put in a new v2 hotend and nozzle assembly.

- I did try an older roll of ABS in white that did seem to solve the issue.  

When i cut the newer ABS rolls i did notice that there was a small pin hole cavity running up the middle of the filament.  It seemed to be intermittent along the filament wire, as some cuts didn't show cavities.  It was as tho there were some air bubbles during the filament manufacturing process. 

Could a bad batch of filament cause this issue? 

If it was the ribbon cable i would expect it to happen with the older batch of filament as well.

The machine is only a couple of months old.   

 Any help would be much appreciated as i have spent a significant amount of time and filament trying to trouble shoot the issue. And need to get some parts printed as soon as i can. 

regards 

Dave

2

I had clogging, too. Just leaving the nozzle in acetone didn't remove the residue in the nozzle. The burned ABS seems very resilient to acetone. Try using the needles (the steel wires inside the plastic cylinder) that came with the starter kit. I think if there is residue left inside the nozzle, it prints well initially, but new residue will cling more easily to the stuff already inside the nozzle.

I have an ultrasonic cleaner in my shop, but haven`t tried it yet for the nozzle. To clean with acetone in the ultrasonic cleaner you just put a floating metallic cup with acetone in the bath, and put the nozzle in the cup. The ultrasonic waves will transfer through the cup and clean the nozzle.

Best of luck!

Edit: I see now you did put in a new nozzle, so it can't be a clogged nozzle. You could try to rerun "insert new filament" to see if you notice anything different. The thread coming out of the extruder should be a fine "straight" thread, not curling up

3

Hey there Dave

Did you try this http://support.zortrax.com/hotend-cleaning/ or this? http://support.zortrax.com/problem-with-extrusion/

4

As you have already noticed the problem is filament.

Contact your reseller which sold you that filament and demand replacement.

5

I have had issues with the material not extruding out of the nozzle part way through prints. Seems to load the filament fine but then generally will stop extruding material at some random point through the print.  The gear will have eaten into the filament.  Applying pressure helps it push through again.

I think nothing of the suggestions before apply, I have similar trouble but can handle it.

You don't write exactly what kind of ABS you use, if it is Z-ABS or anything else.

I use different brands, when it is about Zortrax ABS (the recommend) I name it Z-ABS, otherwise just ABS (the dangerous ones).

 
This kind of error shows up mainly with softer filament and is caused by the filament feeding mechanism (not to blame it here, M200 is optimized for Z-ABS, Z-ABS shows far less problems as others, but finally also shows...).
 
To my experience printing with the M200 has gotten more hot, I cannot tell if it is because of ambient temps are 10+ degrees higher than before when I bought the printer or if it is because of the Software versions past 0.9.6 is using higher temps. Whatever it is, the 'softness' of the filament and the summed friction of the spool / holder / tube and movement of the printer head (that is model dependent) are causing extrusion stops as you describe.
 
I experience this mostly at the 3rd raft level (the one that draws the fine lines after the bigger ones) and / or if there is much movement causing the print head jumping between quick small lines on a small area to big circles around the bed and vice versa (wich is especially true for the transistion from the 2nd raft layer to the 3rd). [hope I did count the layers correct]
 
As you told, just forcing the filament a bit into the extruder gets back the filament flow, but this is not a solution (don't want to stay next to the printer until it's done with the raft).
I found the filament tube being a big problem too as it works like a heavy break on my printer now. I hink it shrinked a bit at the extruders end because of the heat probably.
The tube is 'soaken' a bit into the extruders filament input and there it gets shortened by the tension that is caused by the extruder pulling the filament in.
If you have a marginal bigger filament diameter this is already enough to give you trouble.
 
To help with that you have to put away some friction where it is possible, try a spool holder with less friction.
Check if the filament is goiing thru the tube without resistance. I am currently working on options for the breaking tube but not satisfied now.
 
If you use other filament than Z-ABS the spools could be more heavy, the filament being softer and too big. If so, you have to compensate for that or just use Z-ABS.  :ph34r:
6

Is the upper fan working?

7

“lots of good points”

On a note Z-Ren made, some of the drag the filament is getting comes from the filament tube and then there is the spool holder causing some more. If you are using some filament that does not start with "Z" then your issue is that the filament is being prematurely heated at the extruder gear.

8

"Could a bad batch of filament cause this issue? "To answer your only question

Yes it is possible.

Do you have the Zabs spool on bearings? 

Sometimes depending how your spool is situated the stepper feed motor doesn't have the balls to pull t through and just eats away at it

9

Chris, how will this help with a brand new V2 hot end ?

I'd like to hear your comments on the air cavity in the filament.

Dave, can you try another roll I sent you ? I would really like to confirm that it is just that one. Thanks.

10

Thanks for all the responses they are much appreciated. 

Firstly, i am using Z filaments only.  Should have stated that in the first post. 

Update on my troubleshoot:

I have managed to get 3 prints out without an issue using the same roll.  However the issue started again this morning when i went to print another. 

Jamie, i have tried 3 different new rolls of Z-ABS with issues occurring.  I tried an old roll of z-abs and didn't have the issue.   

I have ruled out friction from the spool holder. I have a modified setup to reduce any catching or kinking on the roll.   

All parts have been checked cleaned etc as per the manuals. and like i said i have even put in a whole new V2 hotend including new wires.  I have checked all connections.

 

The problem has been occurring at random points during the prints.  Sometimes with the initial layer, the thick one to begin the raft. or with the thinner layers in the raft or midway through the part.  I have watched it occur, the feeder gear does not stop, evidence of power being an issue.  Everything seems to be working except the material just doesnt extrude out the nozzle.

Which leads me back to possibility that it could be the material. I am trying another roll of Z-ABS and then will put in some Z-HIPS to see if the issue is still occurring.

I have noticed that this batch of z-abs black does have a different tinge to the coloring. its not as black as previous rolls.

And also if someone could  please advise why there are two different material spool stickers for the same zortrax material?

11

Just adding to my previous post.  My current theory is that the cavities in the material are building up air bubbles in the extruder which when they get big enough may allow the material to clog just enough for the feeder gear to eat away at the filament and loose traction.

But will see how it goes with this other roll of black z-abs material which doesn't have the slight discolouration and doesn't seem to have any cavities through the filament cross section.

12

Might want to unroll the filament on that spool a bit and then redo it. 

Sometimes it binds up but only enough to stop the print then when you check it, the spot, gets slack and then releases some filament loose to be able to print again and then binds up again. --I know because it has happened to me.

Might also be a heater issue that the nozzle is not heating high enough during parts of the print and stopping the machine from extruding. --Could be the cable as the cable directs the print head to heat. Could be a loose connection for the heater and looses contact in certain positions.

I would check all the wires and connections. Re-spool part of the filament. 

Cheers

13

Just adding to my previous post.  My current theory is that the cavities in the material are building up air bubbles in the extruder which when they get big enough may allow the material to clog just enough for the feeder gear to eat away at the filament and loose traction.

But will see how it goes with this other roll of black z-abs material which doesn't have the slight discolouration and doesn't seem to have any cavities through the filament cross section.

You did not write about clogging before, just that the extrusion stopped. If the nozzle is clogged you normally have to free it with tools or much heat and force and you can see the material that clogged the nozzle coming out burned. But if you just have to use some force to get the extrusion start again without having that burned material, nothing clogged. Stopped extrusion caused by the nozzle without clogging could be because of the nozzle being to near at the bed, but only happens at the first layers and you can tell it from looking at the print easily.

And also I don't believe that the extruders stepper motor is too weak, writing with the words of another poster: I think it's good to pull your balls thru if needed.  ;)

I think you have put your finger already on it. The filament might be the problem. Maybe the included air makes it weak (soft) causing the stops. You cloud also check the diameter at the time it stops to extrude.

Finally check with the seller what's up with the filament. I had a spool of Z-GLASS that must have been from a batch with some issues too, cannot produce any good print with it.

14

Thanks for all the responses they are much appreciated. 

Firstly, i am using Z filaments only.  Should have stated that in the first post. 

Update on my troubleshoot:

I have managed to get 3 prints out without an issue using the same roll.  However the issue started again this morning when i went to print another. 

Jamie, i have tried 3 different new rolls of Z-ABS with issues occurring.  I tried an old roll of z-abs and didn't have the issue.   

I have ruled out friction from the spool holder. I have a modified setup to reduce any catching or kinking on the roll.   

All parts have been checked cleaned etc as per the manuals. and like i said i have even put in a whole new V2 hotend including new wires.  I have checked all connections.

 

The problem has been occurring at random points during the prints.  Sometimes with the initial layer, the thick one to begin the raft. or with the thinner layers in the raft or midway through the part.  I have watched it occur, the feeder gear does not stop, evidence of power being an issue.  Everything seems to be working except the material just doesnt extrude out the nozzle.

Which leads me back to possibility that it could be the material. I am trying another roll of Z-ABS and then will put in some Z-HIPS to see if the issue is still occurring.

I have noticed that this batch of z-abs black does have a different tinge to the coloring. its not as black as previous rolls.

And also if someone could  please advise why there are two different material spool stickers for the same zortrax material?

Hi David,

This certainly is sounding like a filament issue, but please let me know how the HIPS goes also. Naturally happy to replace any rolls that are defective.

As for the different stickers, Zortrax updated their logo a while back, and some of the filament is from the batch before that happened. Incidentally which one is giving you the problems ?

15

Current update to the problem:

Tried 5 different rolls of z-ABS and a final print of Z-HIPS  issue still occurs.  doesn't seem to have a pattern as to when its happening could be at the initial layer, somewhere in the raft and sometimes midway through print.  When it occurs at the base layer in the raft it may just be a 50mm section that doesn't extrude any filament then it may start to come out of the nozzle again or it just stops coming out all together but the printer still runs through the print.  The feeder gear still turns during the time the filament comes out and when it doesn't.

So just a recap.  The issue is at some points the filament will stop coming out of the nozzle.  Can be for a small period of time or stop altogether.  The feeder gear still turns and when the filament has stopped coming out the nozzle completely the gear has eaten away at the material and there is nothing to grab onto to feed it through.  Applying pressure to the filament into the gear gets it extruding out the nozzle tip again.  There are no signs of burnt material when it comes out the tip after stopping.

I have been through and cleaned everything as per manuals and other posts as well as what has been mentioned above.  including replacing the whole hotend with a V2

The printer was bought in march 2015 and is at the point where it will be sitting in the corner as i have spent too much time and money dealing with this issue and must now catch up on the work i have neglected.

Could someone please advise the next course of action or could someone from Zortrax please advise. 

Could this be a ribbon issue? if so surely this is a warranty issue if the printer is less then 4 months old.

16

Could be ribbon cable. Go to filament loading and then wiggle the cable while it is loading. If the stepper skips or stops then it is the cable. I posted a quick a quick fix for the old style ribbon…don’t know which one you have …please use the search function.

How does the string come out of the nozzle? Straight downwards or slightly angled to a side? I know you tried a new nozzle but I would recommend to try a third one just to be sure. You can also put the piano wire into the nozzle while the extruder is heated.

Is the upper fan working?

17

All fans are working string comes out straight, should the string be perfectly smooth or does yours come out with little imperfections or nics?

I have replaced the whole hotend, surely i shouldn't need to test a 3rd nozzle? 

Have tried wiggling the ribbon when filament loading and did not notice any effect. 

18

That's tough...

I again think it's not the not the stepper, not the cable. If a damaged ribbon cable influences the extruder it would stop or extrude only at certain cable positions / angles.

But you tell the gear is moving steady (and it's moving for longer, nagging the filament). If the outages were only short you would get a bad print because of stop-/starting extrusion.

Of course the influencing factors are many and if everything sums up it could be something already mentioned (even the ribbon cable).

If not already done you could do a test without any friction by unwinding the filament form the spool and feed it directly from above (best without tube).

Another reason for your trouble could be, that you print with just a few degrees too low for whatever reason (here the ribbon cable is again a potential error cause).

19

Issue with printing

Hello again Dave,

Yes, it can be the ribbon cable. I advise you to contact our customer support team regarding this issue: support@zortrax.com . Please provide as many inforomation as you can, including photos and a movie if aveilable. Also, providing the purchase date, hardware and a serial number will be helpful for us to diagnose it.

20

On mine the string is perfectly smooth.

One last idea:

Overlap of extruder gear into filament might be too small…this way the gear slips too easily as soon as you get a small back pressure change.

Take the 4 stepper screws out and check the idler bearing first. Make sure it’s not damaged. If it’s good then re-install the stepper but push it over strongly towards the bearing when tightening the 4 screws (without any filament in there of course). This should give you more overlap (= more “grab”)

One more thing… When you have the stepper in your hand check that the axial position of the gear makes sense … It should be in a position so that it engages fully with the filament (not just the edge of the gear for example). Also verify that the gear tips are sharp and not worn in any way.