Nylon PA 12


#1

Hi everyone.

I've been printing with nylon PA12 from Rigidink, and after some tests it prints quite well.

For breaking off the raft you need some force at first but works fine. Supports are more difficult to break off compared with ABS. You must have easy access to peel them.

Only tested with 0.19mm layer.

Cannot post pictures because I've only printed parts for a customer.


#2

Thank you for sharing.

Very interesting !

 

No problem with the nozzle ?

No clogged nozzle ?

No problem with the extruder gear ?

PA 12 more flexible or stiffer than PA6 ?

thanks for the answers


#3

No problems at all, more than a little hairy: neither extruder, nor nozzle...

The only thing is to clean the bed correctly and apply elmers glue. It mustn't be any filament stick to the bed, the nylon must flow free between the nozzle and the bed.


#4

Hi there,

tried Bridge Nylon from Taulmann. Works fine, but warps a lot. Alloy 910 warps less than ABS, prints are really great.

Used ABS settings with 254 degrees,bed 60°, layer 0,19, retract increased to 2mm, no stringing.

regards

Andi


#5

Thanks for these informations.

What is the size of these objects printed without warping?

Do you have some pictures ?

Can the raft be easily removed from the aluminum plate ?

Can the raft be easily removed from the object ?

Have you tried other kinds of nylon? (nylon + carbon, nylon + kevlar, nylon + fiberglass) ?

Did you dry (with the oven) the nylon before printing it ?


#6

Size is ~137x104mm, and 107x 114mm. Printed in shell mode, wall thickness 0,6mm.

Yes I have some pics, but can not upload them cause "The server returned an error during upload", this error exists already some weeks.

Shape is elliptic and the cross section of a float (2 sharp edges).

Raft sticks very well to the alu plate, spatula works. Objects can be removed good from the raft, similar to ABS.

Tried bridge nylon, Alloy 910 and Nylon 680. Bridge warps, Alloy 910 and Nylon 680 work fine. There is one issue with this thin shell objects in that complicated shapes: When the material cools it will shorten the way of some curves, causing slightly deforming. But thats something that can be solved with some reinforcements of the 0,6mm wall.

Yes you have to dry the nylon before printing. Otherwise quality sinks, layer bonding and surface.

Objects are really strong and tough, layer bonding is superb. Surface is excellent. Stiffnes is about the same as Z-PETG.

regards

Andi


#7

Thank you for the answer

 

So raft sticks strongly to the plate ?

I already had this problem with ABS + carbon : impossible to remove the raft !

With ABS + Kevlar, it’s the same !

 

" Yes I have some pics, but can not upload them cause "The server returned an error during upload", this error exists already some weeks."

Yes, I also receive this message : I can not put pictures either!

 

I saw that Polymaker makes a device to dry the filaments ( http://www.polymaker.com/shop/polybox/ ): perhaps a more easy solution than the oven ?


#8

Raft sticks strong to the plate, but its managable. I found it easier to remove when everything has cooled down.

Yes this drying issue is a bit annoying. Actually I do some tests with different materials for construction of an RC model. While there are some made of PLA, I am shure there are much better materials around. If I  continue to work with nylon, I will for shure beef up my equipment for a dry print. For now I used the oven, and for a 2 hour print the filament was exposed to the air, thats no problem.

So far I tried Z-PCABS. Warps more than the nylons I mentioned, and while volume models are strong, there is a lack of layer bonding in shell models.

Z-PETG is a really good material. Almost no warp, good layerbonding, can be glued and easily painted.

Z-ABS and ULTRAT lacks layer bonding and strength. (For shell models with 1 perimeter. Otherwise they work great.)

POLYMAX PLA is also fine. No warp, good layerbond, however it is not possible to remove the object from the raft, I had to cut it off with a dremel every time.

ABS + Kevlar and carbon? Sounds interesting, do you have a link?

And, in case the Zortrax Team is reading - if you create a filament with the strength of PETG, but only half the weight, the RC model flyers will love you :)

regards

Andi


#9

In July 2016, I tested the filaments of abs-filaments ( https://www.filament-abs.fr/categorie-produit/filaments-abs-speciaux/) but it was not yet possible to change the parameters in Z-Suite : I had used the profile ABS : Maybe too hot for these filaments ? (They advise T ° extruder at +/- 250 °)

With Zortrax, I tested the :

ABS + carbon : https://www.filament-abs.fr/produit/filaments-abs-carbone-au-metre/

ABS + Kevlar : https://www.filament-abs.fr/categorie-produit/filaments-abs-speciaux/

With my Witbox (+ hot plate), I tested :

-PETG + carbon : https://www.filament-abs.fr/produit/filaments-petg-carbone-au-metre/

Very good result : object that seems unbreakable !

Here is a link that may interest you : http://www.wiki.filimprimante3d.fr/une-voiture-rc-imprimee-en-3d/


#10

Thank you :)

regards

Andi


#11

I think, however, that the abrasion of these filaments will quickly damage the brass nozzle.

It should be possible to install nozzles made of hard steel or stainless steel.

But I believe that Zortrax does not sell this kind of nozzles


#12

Yes, the abrasion is one issue, and the weight of the filament another. Right now I use a coated nozzle, however there is no difference regarding print quality.

I am very tempted to try a PA 12 such as STYX 12 or similar. Taulmann makes a secret of the specific weight of their nylons, PA 6 seems to be around 10% heavier than PA 12.

Does anybody know wether PA 12 shrinks more or less than PA 6? PA 12 keeps less water, but if it shrinks more then PA 6 it will most probably unuseable for may specific shape.

regards

Andi


#13

"I use a coated nozzle "

what is it ?

Is it more resistant to abasion than brass nozzles ?

Where can I buy this kind of nozzle ?


#14

I use this one: https://www.3djake.at/micro-swiss/duese-beschichtet-fuer-zortrax

regards

Andi


#15

I use this one: https://www.3djake.at/micro-swiss/duese-beschichtet-fuer-zortrax

regards

Andi

Or you could buy 100 for very cheap price. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100Pcs-3D-Printer-Zortrax-M200-Nozzle-0-3-0-4-0-5mm-For-Brass-Stainless-steel/32811192954.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.uXNVxN


#16

Oh yea!


#17

So the upload works, maybe my Ghostery blocked too much.

Thats the shapes printed. On the second pic the float section is turned 90°, so its a side view. While the print sticked well to the plate, there is some deforming of the shape when the material cools, and the 0,6mm wall is warped a bit.

4549

IMG_0989.jpg

regards

Andi


#18

Tried PA 12 from Aprinta Pro, the white one. Filament delivered in air tight package. Could be loaded, but refused to extrude for a print. Dried for some hours, increased temp to 260°, still no extruding, the motor keeps nibbling but no filament. I will book it under "experience".

Fillamentum FX 256, also a PA 12. Works at lower temperatures, extrudes fine, but warps a lot. The objects in the pic above could not be printed, too much warp.

For now Alloy 910 (which is PA 6, as far as I know) holds by far the first place.

regards

Andi


#19

Thank you very much for this valuable information. A lot of time and money saved for us !

The list of nylons to try is still long!

Here are some manufacturers (F) or traders (C ) :

- (F) Dutch filaments : http://www.dutchfilaments.com/pa12-nylon-filament/: PA12?

- (F) Filament-ABS: https://www.filament-abs.fr/product/filament-nylon-pa-6-optimus/: PA6

- (F) Form Futura : https://www.formfutura.com/shop/product/styx-12-972?category=183: PA12

- (F) German Reprap : https://www.germanreprap.com/en/german-reprap-with-three-new-filaments/: nylon?

- (F) Taulmann : http://taulman3d.com/index.html: various nylon

- (F) Nanovia : http://www.nanovia-technologies.com/the-polyamides.php: PA6

- (F) Nexeo : https://www.nexeo3d.com/nexeo3d/ccrz__Products?categoryId=a6a44000000GolYAAS&isCSRFlow=true&portalUser=&store=&cclcl=en_US: PA666

- (F) Filamentum : https://fillamentum.com/collections/technical-polymers/products/nylon-fx256-natural: PA?

- (F) Volumic : https://www.imprimante-3d-volumic.com/en/filament/435-nylon-ultra-175mm-1kg-noir.cfm: PA?

- © Makershop : https://www.makershop.com/23-nylon-filament: nylon PA?

- © 3D Machines : https://www.machines-3d.com/filament-nylon-500g-natural-xml-367_368-947.html: PA6

- © Printerstore : https://www.3d-printerstore.ch/3D-Filament-Resin/3D-Filament-1-75-mm/Nylon-PA-Filament-1-75mm:::49_51_141.html?MODsid = vam19vm9htukvq16s0hb830ao6 : various nylon

- © 3D shop : http://www.the3dshopworld.com/e-shop/filaments-3d-consommables/filament-nylon/: PA?

- But the list is not finished !

There are still nylon + carbon; nylon + kevlar; nylon + fiberglass; nylon-carbon + fiberglass

Zortrax should offer us a NYLON KIT : it’s the most interesting filament to experiment with (see to Markforged ( https://markforged.com/)!)

- hot end adapted (for carbon, kevlar and fiberglass)

- nylon filament (or nylon + carbon filament, or kevlar or fiber of vere)

- adapted aluminum plate


#20

Today I tried Nylon+Carbon from http://www.eumakers.com/de/

Printed at the recommend 240°, and the result was pretty good. There are no layers visible, surface has a certain roughness, however should be a perfect base for any paint (if there is paint that sticks to Nylon). Printed with 0,14 layerheight, objects came out straight and true without any deformation.

The wall thickness of a single wall turned out to be ~0,66 mm, a bit more than the usual 0,6 mm. Layer bonding seems to suffer cause of the carbon, however still very good and outperforms any other material tested (except the pure Nylons, of course).

Nylon and Carbon can take much more heat, so I set the temp to 248° for a second print to improve layer adhesion. Reduced extruder flow by 3%, increased speed by 3% in order to get a thinner wall.

Interesting results: Also this material can warp :), one edge of the raft lifted a bit. Layer adhesion seemed to improve. Wall thickness, however, increased to 0,72 mm.

Am I right to assume that this is the result of the hotter, thus more liquid material? Actually I expected a thinner wall cause of the higher print speed and the reduced flow ratio.

And I still have troubles with stringing, on every seam there are short strings like the bristle of a tooth brush. Retract is already at the maximum of 2.

Any advice from the pros? :wacko:

regards

Andi