Print stops on the way before completion

[Ichiro]

Hi,

I have discussed about this issue with Zortrax and we eneded to the conclusion as bellow.

1. Over heating : This can be one possibility because I put some boot underneath the printer and things get better.

2. USB device format and model reslicing : This is strongly recommended by Zortrax.

I have done both, so I hope no issue will happen in the future.

At this moment, this issue is closed … at least for me.

giufini, please try the option 2)

Norman, hope that you can solve your problem with above info.

Thank you very much !!!

[Norman]

The fundamental problem is the power supply does not suck in cool air but keeps recirculating hot air!

I will have a solution very soon … i have been doing tests and warm air is being sucked out of the power supply vent and then blown over the pcbs by the other fan

[Ichiro]

Hi Norman,

I am glad to see that you are still trying to solve this issue and agree that this issue is a kind of recall type trouble … I have not imagined that I do spend large amount of time for trouble shooting on this machine, I just bought this for my business without annoying this kind of issues and just wanted to concentrate on my business … hahaha

I have to OPEN THIS THREAD AGAIN !!!

After my last post, I did had a trouble of this issue again. That was for 13 hours printing with Z-ABS. Printing stopped just in 4 hours. So I reported this to Zortrax soon. They have assumed that this trouble is complicated than it seems to be and the possibility of Android board is losing the information and restarting itself. And they recommend me to send back my machine to the reseller here for diagnosis…

I just looked back the situation how my trouble was happening from the beginning, giufini’s case that the issue happens just after powering on the machine, and your case. Then I came to the point “High Temperature material”

In the beginning, I had been having this issue with Z-ABS, then run out Z-ABS spending 2 rolls for garbage. Then I switched using Z-HIPS. Reconnecting the bottom fan wiring, making the room underneath the machine for cooling purpose with 4 corner blocks, then situation had been getting better and had succeeded for longer printing with Z-HIPS at last. Now I have had this issue again with Z-ABS.

Z-ABS needs more temperature (275 degree in C) than Z-HIPS (250). This means that machine needs more power draw and increase the chance of over heating. I also find your latest post about PSU over heating and totally agreed for it !!

I just summarize this in the table bellow.

As you see in this table, the materials I used so far is Z-ABS, Z-HIPS, and external PLA. So if I try to print PCABS, same trouble will happen, I guess.

I am not sure which material giufini was using, but if he set the higher temperature material, this trouble will happen in earlier stage … I think.

Then tried to 13 hours long print again with Z-HIPS Yesterday and succeeded.
Now I follow your idea and made inlet cover like you did!

M200-InletCover-03.stl (7.0 MB)

Now I am trying 13 hours long print with Z-ABS. This time the inlet cover for PSU fan as in the picture is attached. Currently 11 hours past, two hours to go !!

I will report again :

[HansL]

The same problem with my M200 Plus after about 300h, happened again and again.
Sent it back to the reseller and purshased a new M200 Plus.
Updated the new printer with the latest firmware.
Print Z-ABS.
Printing around the clock. One model is 15h and one is 10h.
So far about 250h printing time, and the M200 Plus works like a charm.

[Norman]

Hi Hans I wish!! Interesting as i bought 2 new M200+ from my dealer 14 months ago, one made in 2018, no date on the othe rone. When i came to check the hot end wiring so i could answer Karolina’s request, one of them had clearly been dismantled before. This was a 2nd hand machine or had been used for spares and the dealer has since gone bust. Did you get a brand new machine? i.e a later model version?

[Norman]

Hi Ichiro … sorry MK2 … i have also added an exit for most of the hot air even though the psu does have another vent … Generally about 3 -4 degrees warmer coming out of the psu than going in.200 PSU exhaust.stl (76.9 KB)

When you have improved the design let me have a copy HaHa!

[Ichiro]

Hello HansL, Nice talk to you !
Hi, Norman,

Succeeded 13 hours print with Z-ABS !

Mine has only Inlet duct as in the picture, exit is as it is.
I think that command is from zcodex, but scheme is by firmware, if something goes wrong, it gives too much load on PSU and/or motherboard … At this point it is obvious that cooling PSU changes the result. Now we all use the latest firmware, so the difference may be the PSU version, bottom plate design, or some parts design change we do not know in comparison to the latest model. I just put the picutre of mine, please let me know if you have different design or any you notice. The label in the bottom plate says " 2018.09.15 04/123" in my machine.

Current PSU is MeanWell’s RSP-320-24, maybe good to change to RSP-500-24 !?

If this issue happens for high temperature extruder setting, cause may be the heater or its associate part … I guess. Something draws too much from PSU. I am not a speciallist about these, so I am glad someone look at this issue…

Although I do not have PCABS which needs the highest temp 290 degree, I will try PCABS setting long print with Z-ABS, without PSU duct cover, also without 4 corner blocks, and see what happens.

I will report!! … maybe soon hahaha !

[Norman]

Hi Ichiro Thanks for that. I just took the bottom off my M200 and ITS THE SAME PSU !!!
So we have a more sophisticated machine with more electric consumption, so it could be running at its limit. and only a slight increase in temperature and it can’t cope. Perhaps this is why it takes 9 minutes to warm up and the temperatures go up and down like a yoyo and half way through a long run the pcbs can’t get enough and fail.#

And you know the design problem … the 500w PSU is twice the price. what happens if half way through the print the nozzle temperature drops?

[Ichiro]

Took about 5 minutes to warn up, then started just a few minutes ago!!
Yes, Prusa Mk3S warms up much faster than this with less wattage, 240W -24V PSU.

Let’s see how long this setting can go !!!

One thing I hit upon is that the cable size for extruder heater.
Is it too thin to draw for 290 degree in C ???

[Ichiro]

When looking at the spec sheet of Meanwell PSU, there are two types of protection, one for Overload and another for Over Voltage. And Overload protection type is different for 320 & 500. I do not know how …

It looks that firmware is programed to draw more current to speed up the heating, but PSU’s protecting function works against for it !? … just my guess. Zortrac should know about this details. There must be something which is being the bottle neck preventing quick temperature rise.

We need an electrical engineer here …!!!

Price? I do not care… hahaha
How long have we been spending for this issue? This is not our job !?!?!?
Marta, Karolina, … they are getting payed from Zortrax, I think.
But we are loosing money ---------------- !!! hahahahaha

[Norman]

I know, i am way behind on my work and it seems to me that we have been sold prototypes and the firmware is not even fully developed yet. I have managed 160 hours out of one M200+ in 4 months. The M200 warms up the bed and the extruder seperately … the M200 does them at the same time. The extruder cable size is the same for the m200 so is ok.
It seems the Zortrax engineers have never heard of “if it aint broke … don’t fix it” Just taking out the beeper probably saved then 75c and costs everyone thousands of hours a year sitting looking at the pretty screen waiting to tell it to “continue”. its unbelieveable really.

[Ichiro]

HAHAHAHA …

PRETTY SCREEN !!!

[Ichiro]

13 hours long print by Z-PCABS setting with Z-ABS material FINISHED without any problem !
No bottom corner blocks, no PSU inlet duct.
… this is interesting !!!

I try Z-ABS setting with Z-ABS material again…

[Norman]

Here is the low down on how the PSU manages the current. Note that the PSU in the M200 and M200+ are the same yet the m200+ has far more electronics AND tries to heat the Nozzle and Bed at the same time. The issue that Xortrax refuse to answer is why the M200+ takes so long to warm up and why the temperatures goes up and down like a yoyo while it is doing it.

PSU: They will “hiccup” if overloaded, i.e. briefly turn themselves off and back on again and just do that continuously if they are overloaded, it keeps the average current safe.

If the PSU is on its limit and some other componenet like the Hot end heater has too high resistance then keeping the PSU as cool as possible will help. So Hot may be 34degc rather than 32degc

The PSU is a good quality Chinese make.

[Ichiro]

Hi Norman,

Thanks for details!
That makes sense and it seems that M200+ does not have reasonable margin for the current and temperature. Trying to deal with that by firmware but PSU reaches to its limit and triggers system restarting. 500W PSU will work better for this reason but it will be a huge cost for Zortrax if it becomes recall …

For my last print with Z-ABS and current one with also Z-ABS, M200 which is just positioned left side of M200+ has been powered off. This may be the reason why I have succeeded last print and this print which will be …currently 70% finished.

Therefore we have to care more about the ambient operation temperature for M200+ than M200. Especially left side ambient temperature for M200+ !!

Now we know how we can make this issue in better way. How about your print going? Have you tried long print?

[HansL]

Hi Norman,
I think I got a brand new machine - but how can you tell?

[Norman]

Zortrax will be able to tell you from the serial number.

[lucmartzz]

Hi. I have the same problem of unexpected stopped prints on my M200 plus. The problem is the filament sensor on the back.

The temporal solution is to by pass the sensor and don’t use it. So frustrating for the inversión in money and time.