Print stops on the way before completion

[Ichiro]

Hi !

Printing stops in every case before completion…

Strange thing is that the message “Completed 100 %” is displayed on screen of printer every time,
but the extruder is just above the position where printing stopped, not the home position,
and the bed is all the way down. Of course the extruder and the bed are cooled down.
One more strange thing is that “Complete” message is also in Z-SUITE device screen of PC,
but the print percentage band where finished percentage is dark blue and the rest is light blue is just the condition when the print stopped, so partially dark blue.

I checked material tangle, extruder clog, but they are all fine.

The condition is ;
Printer : M200 Plus (Firmware V2.1.4)
I have degraded firmware from V2.2.3 to the above since the reseller here
said that this version is relatively stable !
Software : Z-SUITE (Version 2.12.2.0)

I think that this trouble has started since I started using Wifi function, sending data, watching the camera,
and also connecting PC and Printer all the time during the printing which takes more than 1 day.

Currently I have been trying to print with wifi disconnected and see what will happen.

Is there any idea to fix this ???

[Ichiro]

Stopped again, so problem is not the wifi related …

This time, about 30% printed and finished

Message " Finished 100% “”

Originally this will take about 1 day and 14 hours.

Then I went through some topics in this forum related to print stop problem.
I opened the bottom plate to check the electric parts, then found that the wiring
of bottom fan is not connected to anywhere !!!

I found one female connector on mother board which has a label “Fan”
and put this wire to it.

I have never printed big files which takes more than 10 fours or so since I bought this printer
a bit more than a year ago,so this issue has not come out yet. But this time, mother board
cooling problem has lead to the thermal runaway which makes this strange trouble this time, I guess.

Now I have started to print this file again, so will see how this comes out
in a day or so… I will report !!

Thank you for reading !

[KarolinaZ]

Hi,

First of all - in order to remove the bottom plate, you need to unplug the bottom fan cable from the LCD board first. Are you sure it was already loose when you removed the plate? Otherwise, the cable might have got loose.

Second of all - a problem with the print. Please, format the USB, slice the file again and run a test print. You may even use a different drive. You experience problems with longer prints only, right?

Moreover, I assume the printer indicates the end of the print when it should be still running, right? It is not running on an empty extruder.

Please, remember that you can always contact us via support form so we can look further into the matter.

Best regards,
Karolina

[Ichiro]

Hello Karolina,

Thank you for your support.

First of all - in order to remove the bottom plate, you need to unplug the bottom fan cable from the LCD >board first. Are you sure it was already loose when you removed the plate? Otherwise, the cable might >have got loose.

I have 2 x M200 which are running in very good shape. By chance, one of the bottom fan of them
had started making noise, so I took it out, disassembled, lubricated fan motor axis, and then
put it back. Therefore I have an idea somehow that there is fan attached in the bottom plate as well
for M200 Plus. So I opened the bottom plate of M200 Plus very slowly as you can see in the picture.
Actually the bottom plate is still and upper body was angled backward. So very little chance of getting
loose connector, I think. And I have not mentioned that the fan was super clean!!! If it was running over the year, it should have some dust on it like the one on M200.

Bottom fan connector of M200 is directly connected to the mother board !
(One in M200 Plus is connected to LCD board on mother board)!

Second of all - a problem with the print. Please, format the USB, slice the file again and run a test print.
You may even use a different drive. You experience problems with longer prints only, right?

Thanks ! Now I have been running another try with fan connector attached, so if I fail, I will try
as you mentioned. Please wait for a while, I will report !
Yes, only for longer prints.

Moreover, I assume the printer indicates the end of the print when it should be still running, right?
It is not running on an empty extruder.

Yes, It indicates that finished 100% as you see in the picture.
But actually print is not finished at all !!!
Of course extruder is filled with fillament without any problem.

Please, remember that you can always contact us via [support form](https://support.zortrax.com
so we can look further into the matter.

Yes, Thanks!
Maybe it is good idea that bottom fan check function is implemented on future coming firmware update !!

At last, sorry that I am not good at English !
I will try to explain as much as I can do.

Best Regards,
Ichiro

[Ichiro]

Very very … disappointed …
It was about 9 hours to go, but printing stopped.
I have spent 2 rolls of Z-ABS for garbage!?!?!?!

This time printing was the longest one which this M200 Plus could print, but not until the end.
As you see in Z-SUITE device screen, it says “PRINTING COMPLETE” … no way !

I am using Zortrax for my business, M200 are doing fine all the time,but M200 PLUS is not at all.
I can not trust this machine at all …just spending money and valuable time.
wati wait wait and I got crap every time making me very nervous.

I have no more words …

[giufini]

I too have had this problem several times with my M200 Plus. I can’t tell you what the exact cause is. However just today, for example, it happened to me that the printer said it had completed printing 100% before it even started.
When I tried to press “Print again” I noticed that the printer did not normally respond to the touch commands on the screen, so I have the impression that it is a firmware problem (I am using version 2.2.3).

[Ichiro]

Hello giufini,

Thanks for the comment!

I noticed this problem in firmware version 2.2.3, then now degraded to 2.1.4since we here thought that it might be a firmware matter.

Now I am totally tired of working on fixing this problem. I am not technical engineer working at Zortrax and can not spend any more time for this. I have concluded this is the basic problem of M200 Plus and not the specific machine’s problem. I assume that there is not M200 Plus which can print more than 1 day !?!?

I was considering to increase several sets of M200 Plus for my business after currently on going project, but I stopped. I have been using Prusa Mk3S for PLA printing ( I have 4 sets of those and they print very precise model same as Zortrax if you set it up correctly), but for ABS and HIPS project I have used Zortrax. Maybe time to consider Raise3D, Ultimaker or some others…

I can not see any good point on M200 Plus over M200 under the current situation…

I want degrade this M200 Plus to M200 !! … hahaha

[KarolinaZ]

Hello,

Thank you for answering my questions - I do appreciate that. We truly apologize for all the inconvenience caused. We would really like to look further into the matter and provide a solution - in case you have not filled in the support form yet, please, do this as soon as possible. One of our agents will take care of the case and we will definitely provide a solution to your problem. Hopefully, you will enjoy using M200 Plus again. It is definitely capable of doing longer print jobs.

Best regards,
Karolina

[giufini]

It happened again!

This is the link to the video I recorded this morning:

My M200 Plus has the latest firmware (v 2.2.3).
Please, have a look and try to figure out what’s happening, thank you!

[Ichiro]

Hello Karolina,

I will fill the support form soon, but there is other users who has the same problem.
Therefore the argent you mentioned should be here soon, explain, and give us the solution.
Basically what we can do is showing you some hints and tips which may lead to the solution.
Our time is limited which can be spent on this issue, So I want you do some test and find solution inside your company, Zortrax, then give us a guide, please !

It is hard, at least for me, to do all the possible tries which you suggest like how about this or that …
If it is done in soon, that may be ok, but if it takes long hours and need more materials, it is just a waste of time and money for us … This M200 PLUS costs roughly $3000. If I count my time spending on this issue so far, it can be easily far more than this price. Wise user may throw this machine away, get other reliable machine and continue his/her business, because it is cost effective. The reason why I am still sticking to this problem is just the curiosity and desire to solve something as an engineer, maybe …
I bought Zortrax for business use, not the hobby use to play around…

Now I ask you how about trying the 2days long printing with bottom fan wiring disconnected in your place?
Hint is the position of extruder when print is stopped. Normally it goes back to the home position, but it stays just the position where print is stopped but LCD screen says Finished 100%.

Maybe you can cover the slits on 3 sides of side metal panels, two right /left side and one backside, with some duck tape to increase the chance of this trouble happen faster !?

I want to try above, but currently too busy to work on my project…

I am looking forward to hear the result !!!

Hello giufini,

Thanks for the post!

At this point, I am still suspicious about thermal runaway.
Because the printing time was extended when I put back the disconnected bottom fan wiring. When print proceeds, the heat bed, big heat source!!, is getting close to the mother board underneath.

And now I saw your video and have had a bit confident.
There is some box right side your M200 Plus, which has label “APC” in front. That may be blocking the fresh air coming into M200 Plus, I think. How about checking the bottom fan working ok and put nothing on right side.

Currently I put wooden plate underneath the machine and raise it up just 10mm above the desk.
When you open up the bottom plate, you will see the clearance between the fan and the desk where machine is put on is very little, say roughly 5mm! From that little clearance this fan is sucking the air and blowing the air to the mother board. M200 and M200 Plus uses the same mother board as far as I see, but M200 Plus has additional LCD board on it. This is 24V system, so having more heat source than original M200. This is why I am putting the wooden plate and see how it goes.

Now I am making the Corner Blocks for M200 Plus to raise this machine upward 15mm !! instead of the current thin corner bushings.

Prusa Helps Zortrax !!! … hahaha

Let’s see !!!

[Ichiro]

Here we go !!!

Now I have started about 43hours long print.

I just go back to the latest version of firmware 2.2.3 since I do not think this is firmware matter.
I think that this is the design problem of cooling function…

As you see in the comparison picture above, fan position is changed inward for M200 Plus with the same spec 24V fan. But I think that this was not enough …

On the next side, M200 have been making 2days long print successfully every time!!

Hope I can give good report next time !!!

[giufini]

Hi Ichiro,

I suspect that this problem is not due to poor thermal management.
In my case, the problem shown in the video happened a few minutes after I turned on the M200 Plus and the bottom fan was working well.

I hope Zortrax also can see my video and give us a solution.

[Ichiro]

Hi giufini,

Thanks for the comment.

Waoh … you can not even start the print. That is bad …
In my case I can print at least few hours for sure !

As far as I see your video, message is going back and forth between Heating and Finished 100% several times. Something must be triggering the finishing massage … We can not see the inside of firmware program, so can not go through logically …

OK, I have prepared to see the unfinished print again soon ??? … hahaha

3am here in Japan, we are working inside because of the corona virus issue.
Hope you are fine there, too!!

Good night!
Have a good day!!

[Ichiro]

So far so good !!!
1 day to go …

[Ichiro]

DONE !! … well done !

This is the first time I got the longer print, took more than a day, on M200 Plus.
Success ratio has gone up from 0% to ?% … hahaha.

Extruder was back in the home position normally !

So … this was due to poor thermal management???

I have not tried the suggestion of Karolina’s USB formatting, so I will do so next time for additional secure and see if problem happens again…

I have signed for support form but have not got any reply yet. But if possible, I mean that there is any man power to work on this issue at Zortrax right now, I would like to ask an agent at Zortrax to try my idea of printing longer one with bottom fan disconnected and report. As far as I see giufini’s video, something is on and off consecutively like some sensor is on/off or some connector is connect/disconnected … I am afraid that same thing happens on my machine, too.

[Norman]

Hi This thread has been very useful for me… I have 2 x 200 and 2 X 200+ the + are a nighmare. i only do short prints up to 7-8 hours. here are some of my findings and I am on the latest firmware.

Using ultrat. 1) Both printers always took ages to warm up, 3 times the m200.
2) Last problem before onet wont work at all was the bed does not get up to temperature but the printer decides to print a bird’s nest
3) during warm up the two temperature readings go up and down.
4) the fans are noisier than the M200.
5) Get hot end errors so switch off and back on. Then it says its finished printing … do i want to print another. yes = hot end error. Can’t win really.
6) I put spaces under the feet as i do think temperature is a contrubutory factor. I also think the Firmware is trying to be far too clever.

M200

I did have both my M200 stop in the middle of a print at the same time and it was a split second power supply interuption. Its the only time i have had it happen. enough to stop the print but not to loose the system.

the company in the UK that sold it to me has gone bust.

Where can i get your “boots” from as i could print them on the M200 to make the M200+ work maybee when i have identified the rest of the problems. Perhaps the motherboards have overheated and some components partially failed. My theory is that an extra small gap like i did of 3mm wont make any difference but your gap of 20MM? will hep the fan with convection as well as flow, once I have fixed the other problems.

Norman

[Norman]

Eureka … your pictures have the answer to the temperature problem … Have a look at the underside of the M200 and the 200+. the "other " heat source vents through a great big hole in the m200. In the 200+ there are some small holes that are not even directly below the fan,

[Ichiro]

Hello Norman,

At this point I cannot tell if this was because of thermal issue, USB device formatting, or other since I succeeded long print based on my idea… This success might be by chance ???
Now I am trying long print with USB device formatted and it is almost done without any problem so far.

I have got contact from Zortrax, so I hope we can find the exact cause and have confident to use this M200+ !!!

I will report some time !

[Norman]

Hi Ichiro

The performance of electrinic components is affected by heat and all sorts of effects happen that make no sense. If they over heat they can change permanently and not work as designed to.

I just turned the M200 and M200+ upside down and measured the two vents below the 2 fans.

This is very important, both these fans suck cold air in from under the floor, you would have assumed???

Compared with the M200, the M200+ the in incoming cold air vent area for, the main power supply has reduced by 81% and the larger motherboard fan by 77% … this is a significant restriction for 2 reasons.

1. The fans are less efficient so the volume of moving air is less, so less flow over the hot electronic components

but the real issue

2. the feet (1.5mm) restrict the availability of cool air so look at the design of the metal floor under the printer, there is a space all way round. So the easiest air for the fans to recirculate is the warm air going out the side vents.

Your “boots” are helping by allowing more cool air in BUT this is fundamentally a design change from the 200 to the 200+ that was not thought through.

[Ichiro]

Hi Norman,

Thanks for comment.
That is exactly what I thought, therefore I put blocks to help much cooler fresh air in !!!
Without reasonable clearance there it is just warm air circulation, I thought.
I do like your hand drawing !! That is what I want to show here.

By the way, long print with USB device formatted has finished without stop.
This is good !

BUT !!! … another terrible? problem has appeared … OUTER SURFACE PEELING!!

I will put this up in another thread in the forum later !!

This time I gave up using M200+ for currently going my project …

As long as I cannot get the final good print, I cannot see any good point for M200 Plus.
I do not need touch screen, wifi function and other fancy stuff…
Just want the good print, that is all.
I want more M200 ! not +