Why doesn't the extruder heat at the same time as the platform?


#1

This used to happen many firmware revisions back. I know there has been some discussion of not wanting to overheat the extruder. But as it is it takes a very long time to get the printer printing from a cold start. Surely the extruder can be heated up at least a little during the long time the platform is being heated. On the most current firmware, when the platform reaches 100%, the extruder is stone cold. 


#2

Interested me too ....


#3

Topic was discussed last in 01/2018 there:

http://bugtracker.zortrax.com/topic/3114-heating-bad-and-extruder-at-the-same-time/

There it was stated, that Extruder + Heatbed heats up together.

What printer and FW version are you referring to?


#4

They do not heat up together.

This is an M200 V4 with the latest firmware (1.2.0) and has been true for the last 5 versions of firmware at least. Start the unit from cold and hold your hand on the extruder. It is stone cold when the bed hits 100%. 

I saw that comment too, don't know what those people are looking at: mine does not heat the extruder - at all - while the bed is heating. Not slower, not delayed a bit - not at all! 100% repeatable. Printer works fine once you get it going, but that takes in excess of 10 minutes. Behavior is somewhat different if awake and idle, or waking from sleep. 


#5

I can confirm the same behavior coming out of sleep. Platform heats 100% before the extruder heats at all. 


#6

They do not heat up together.

This is an M200 V4 with the latest firmware (1.2.0) and has been true for the last 5 versions of firmware at least. Start the unit from cold and hold your hand on the extruder. It is stone cold when the bed hits 100%. 

I saw that comment too, don't know what those people are looking at: mine does not heat the extruder - at all - while the bed is heating. Not slower, not delayed a bit - not at all! 100% repeatable. Printer works fine once you get it going, but that takes in excess of 10 minutes. Behavior is somewhat different if awake and idle, or waking from sleep. 

Ha, I have the opposite problem - the extruder tends to overshoot the setpoint and overheat by 10-20º while the platform is coming up to temp. I'm not using f/w 1.2.0; maybe 1.1.0 I think, but this behavior has been consistent on both my M200s for many previous firmware versions. I'm still using the 1.x slicer, don't know if that might have anything to do with it.


#7

Julia, can you try from stone cold off, turning on the printer and immediately selecting a model to print. Then observe the heating of the platform and extruder. Mine has done this for many firmware revisions. The slicer probably has nothing to do with it (I'm also using the 1.13 slicer). 

There are other times when the unit is already warm, when they seem to heat at the same time. But not from cold, either off or in sleep. Unless mine is different from everyone else - and that seems like the least likely answer. 


#8

Julia, can you try from stone cold off, turning on the printer and immediately selecting a model to print. Then observe the heating of the platform and extruder. Mine has done this for many firmware revisions. The slicer probably has nothing to do with it (I'm also using the 1.13 slicer). 

There are other times when the unit is already warm, when they seem to heat at the same time. But not from cold, either off or in sleep. Unless mine is different from everyone else - and that seems like the least likely answer. 

I just did exactly that. Firmware 1.0.6. In the photo you can see the blue bed heater light and the LCD showing 73% done. Meanwhile the hot end is at 252.5º (actually set for 245º).


#9

Hmm, 1.0.6 firmware, quite awhile ago. With my 1.2.0 firmware, the extruder is cold to the touch when the bed is at 100%. Then it starts to heat. I remember it doing what yours does, many revisions of firmware ago, not sure when it changed.

I'll see if I can get some IR camera pictures. 


#10

Ok, pics or it didn't happen.

These were taken with a Flir One Pro thermal camera. It's a little hard to read the display, but it is about 90% through heating the platform from a cold start. Actually it had been shut down from a 12 hour print only a hour before so everything is slightly warm still. The cursor is on the middle of the platform which is near it's final temp at 132 deg F. 

4765

CCYF9618.JPG

Here the cursor is on the extruder block which is at 82 deg F - basically what it started at when I turned the thing on. They do not heat at the same time! Surely if they did, the extruder would be north of 200 deg F by then.

4766

GUXB8821.JPG


#11

My other M200 has firmware 1.1.1; under that version, the bed and extruder do not heat concurrently.


#12

Hello Julia,

In the photo of your Zortrax, we see that the buildplate is made of glass !

How can the nozzle of your M200 detect the buildplate and calibrate on glass because there is no electrical contact ?


#13

Hello Julia,

In the photo of your Zortrax, we see that the buildplate is made of glass !

How can the nozzle of your M200 detect the buildplate and calibrate on glass because there is no electrical contact ?

Run a Google search on "Z-Sense".


#14

I'm going to bump this up again as it continues to annoy. I put it in as a suggestion over on the bug tracker and all I got was an answer from Marcin that "they do". But THEY DON'T! Test it. Hold your hand on the extruder and start the printer. Take your hand off the extruder when it's too hot to hold. But don't hold your breath in this process. It starts to heat just after the platform reaches 100%.

This has to be very easy to fix. In fact, it used to work but they broke it somewhere between 1.0.6 and 1.1.1 per Julia above. 

Pleas fix it!


#15

I'm going to bump this up again as it continues to annoy. I put it in as a suggestion over on the bug tracker and all I got was an answer from Marcin that "they do". But THEY DON'T! Test it. Hold your hand on the extruder and start the printer. Take your hand off the extruder when it's too hot to hold. But don't hold your breath in this process. It starts to heat just after the platform reaches 100%.

This has to be very easy to fix. In fact, it used to work but they broke it somewhere between 1.0.6 and 1.1.1 per Julia above. 

Pleas fix it!

As Marcin mentioned in another topic, simultaneous heating of the extruder and the platform would possibly shorten the lifespan of the hotend.

Anyway, we’ll check that and see what we can do about it.


#16

It does take longer for the platform to heat than the extruder, so this would add more hot hours to the extruder. But you DO have a computer inside, it is nearly child's play to characterize the heat ramp and start the extruder, say half way into the platform heat up, or heat it part way and then wait, or match the PID ramps to coincide at the far end, or any number of schemes that would speed the process and not affect life. As it is, the platform heater has unnecessary hours on it because it must sit there hot while the extruder goes through the whole ramp. And more importantly, I have extra hours on ME because I'm sitting there waiting for it.....


#17

Would be nice if there was an option to keep the bed hot, and the extruder warm (but below degradation point of the filament) between prints


#18

I have been having the same delays as described and agree with swarf_rat that the software should be able to do something. The situation is is even worse when you change material, you wait for the extruder to heat up, change material, start the print, wait while the platform heats and the extruder cools, and wait again while the extruder reheats. I’m not sure how much difference an extra 10 minutes or so would make to the heater hours when it is followed by a 24 or 48 hour print!


#19

Hi Nigel,

It’s been improved lately for the M series and M series Plus printers.

Make sure you have the latest firmware update installed on your device.

https://support.zortrax.com/downloads/

Kind regards


#20

Hi Marcin

Thanks for that, I have updated the firmware on my M200 and started a print, much better timing, thanks. I did a material change prior to starting the print, so the extruder was already heated. When I started the print the display showed platform heating, at around 40% I think, for a few seconds, then changed to extruder heating, at around 85% I think, once the extruder reached temperature the print started. There was no further display of platform temp, but it didn’t seem long enough for the platform to reach full temp. I didn’t have time to test the platform temp so can’t be certain.

Thanks again for the prompt response