Z FLEX

Hello,
 
Is that provided the release of a flexible filament, Z FLEX. 
If so, when? 
 
Thank you.
 

I'm personally hoping they release Z-nylon first, but any news on new materials would be appreciated from the Z-team. 

YOU only think about yourself with your " Z-nylon first".

I expect an answer on the topic of Z FLEX from ZORTRAX Team quickly.

YOU only think about yourself with your " Z-nylon first".

I expect an answer on the topic of Z FLEX from ZORTRAX Team quickly.

LOL, you’re fun!!! :smiley:

Hello,
 
Is that provided the release of a flexible filament, Z FLEX. 
If so, when? 
 
Thank you.

I don't purport to speak for Zortrax, but my guess is that with its very long distance between the feed gear and the hot end, it will be quite difficult to get flexible filament to work in the M200, at least any filament as flexible as Ninjaflex or Filaflex. It's very difficult to push something that flexible over that long a distance, like pushing a soft noodle. Something a little less flexible, like Polyflex _might_ be possible. I could be wrong; just my experience in working with rubber filaments on a few different printers over the past couple of years.

I don't purport to speak for Zortrax, but my guess is that with its very long distance between the feed gear and the hot end, it will be quite difficult to get flexible filament to work in the M200, at least any filament as flexible as Ninjaflex or Filaflex. It's very difficult to push something that flexible over that long a distance, like pushing a soft noodle. Something a little less flexible, like Polyflex _might_ be possible. I could be wrong; just my experience in working with rubber filaments on a few different printers over the past couple of years.

I know the hotend was not originally designed to receive materials as flexible as Filaflex. 
Also, the impossibility to control the temperature of the extrusion yet. 
It is the case also in the original hotend of "UP", but there is an optional hotend to use filaflex or Ninja with UP. 
I wish the staff reply on this topic to find out if I have to invest in a second machine of a different brand such as UP. 
 
I have some doubt when I see that the staff does not respond to the problems of color, red is not red ..... 
I import filament, customs formalities and finally, spare realize that I should have pink neon instead of being red ... :angry:

Since using non-Zortrax filament would void my warranty and I always do what I'm told, the following are the hypothetical results of a hypothetical experiment conducted by a hypothetical M200 owner, written in hypothetical first-person:

The M200 doesn't like Ninjaflex. (1) The extruder pulley can't get a good grip on the filament, (2) filament bends between the pulley and hotend, and (3) rafts (presumably supports as well) fuse irreparably with the part.

1) Low grip results in insufficient torque to pull the rest of the spool along, leading to unreliable feed. I tried mitigating this by replacing the stock tubing with 2mm ID PTFE tubing for less friction and putting some lithium grease on the spool holder. It helped, but feed was still unreliable at best. And ideal fix may be as simple as using a pulley with longer teeth, though this may have an adverse effect on rigid filaments. Especially Z-GLASS, which is very brittle. If another intrepid hypothetical M200 owner were to attempt this and share his/her results, this hypothetical (and quite handsome, might I add) M200 owner would greatly appreciate it.

2) Filament bending between the pulley and hotend could be taken care of with a simple 3D-printed guide that would occupy the empty space around the pulley to the left of the extruder's exit hole. I did not try this myself to be 100% sure though.

3) Fused rafts wouldn't be an issue if Zortrax gave us the option of turning it off (which they may finally do when Z-FLEX comes out, fingers crossed). For now, though, I'd elevate the part with a thin column and let Meshmixer auto-generate supports. Cutting a bunch of small contact points between the part and raft is a lot more feasible than attempting to remove its entire bottom plane.

As an aside, Zen Toolworks recently released a flexible filament that's a little more rigid than Ninjaflex. I was able to print a hollow Mr. Moonie with this filament, though there were a few small holes at the very top and on the underside of his nose (temperature, most likely). The raft fuses to the part with this filament as well, so I had to remove the bottom. Hypothetically.

Leaving hypothetical aside, a lot of force is needed to push these types of filament through the heatbreak (small stainless part between aluminum heatblock and aluminum cooler block.

The problem lies in the design, contact between SS heatbreak and aluminum is very small. A lot of heat creeps into the extruder assembly, some also coming from the extruder stepper itself.

Same design as in another perfboard printer, the "Down!".

I am sure that our forum colleague Mr. Petitclerc could chime in with his knowledge using a Recreus hotend on the "Down!".

This extruder/hotend assembly is made specifically for high temp thermoplastics, just my opinion from my limited knowledge.

Switching back to hypothetical, even if one could lower the printing temp and hotbed temp, the residual heat in the hotend assembly would pose problems. In theory, being made from aluminum, the whole assy could be cooled using 1-2 fans and then the success rate printing said filament would be higher. Hipothetically.

I know the hotend was not originally designed to receive materials as flexible as Filaflex. 
Also, the impossibility to control the temperature of the extrusion yet. 
It is the case also in the original hotend of "UP", but there is an optional hotend to use filaflex or Ninja with UP. 
I wish the staff reply on this topic to find out if I have to invest in a second machine of a different brand such as UP. 
 
I have some doubt when I see that the staff does not respond to the problems of color, red is not red ..... 
I import filament, customs formalities and finally, spare realize that I should have pink neon instead of being red ... :angry:

working with a US distributor i understand that some times filament batches might be bad if you are using a new formula or new supplier. so i get that they may have had a bad batch of the red, it happens from time to time, and getting scattered reports over a few months does not help to find out when the problem originated. (obviously) i do not know the amount of reports they are getting. (batch serial numbers would be great)

on the other side of your comment, TierTime did and still does not care too much about the modding of the printers so long as you did not RMA them because of a mod you did. A lot of their changes came from the community, they built a good starter printer for 3000$ and it has improved a lot and dropped price significantly. because of their teams designing the printer listening to the comments of users and tinkerers.

all Zortrax is really saying (or as i am interpreting it) is that if you screw the printer up due to the end user modding, the printer is not their problem. i can live with that (when i get my printer), hell if they saw my UP! plus 2 PRO TierTime would return it to me in a heart beat. 

as for the main topic, yes i too would like to see a Z-Flex at some point. however the part of raft and support removal that seems to plague the flex material would be a huge obstacle to overcome.

*edit* 

this post i made was done this morning however i did not hit the send and now i have to make a new comment (thanks caesar......)

Leaving hypothetical aside, a lot of force is needed to push these types of filament through the heatbreak (small stainless part between aluminum heatblock and aluminum cooler block.

The problem lies in the design, contact between SS heatbreak and aluminum is very small. A lot of heat creeps into the extruder assembly, some also coming from the extruder stepper itself.

Same design as in another perfboard printer, the "Down!".

I am sure that our forum colleague Mr. Petitclerc could chime in with his knowledge using a Recreus hotend on the "Down!".

This extruder/hotend assembly is made specifically for high temp thermoplastics, just my opinion from my limited knowledge.

Switching back to hypothetical, even if one could lower the printing temp and hotbed temp, the residual heat in the hotend assembly would pose problems. In theory, being made from aluminum, the whole assy could be cooled using 1-2 fans and then the success rate printing said filament would be higher. Hipothetically.

For starters, i am not the Mr. Petitclerc you may know from PP3DP, i am his son, the non Mr., however you are right i can give my input on some of what i know about the Recreus.

i know that it can handle flexible material and that the PTFE tube helps to reduce the drag of the filament from the gear to the hot end. there needs to be minimal distance between the gear and the tube, otherwise the filament will just flex around and bind up on the gear. other than that i am of little use in this subject, Drew has had some success with the current set up, ill have to get him to give me an update about his findings on the Flex material he has in stock. 

i am mainly around here to watch and learn from those who have been working on this platform for a while. i will be getting my next printer from here and i intend to know it inside and out, same for the software.  

Hypothetically, might this replacement work? http://recreus.com/en/content/11-learn. It's the REC-EXTRUDER replacement - about 1/3 down the page. Not sure about the rod size and postioning - and don't have time at the moment to search.

The datasheet for Z-Glass and Ninjaflex state the same melting point - 225C.

So I just noticed that the V2 hotend is out. It appears (facts are sketchy) that it may have a PTFE tube into the hotend. Maybe this will solve the problem???

As some one who has put 2 brand new UP's on the floor and bought a Zortrax so I could fulfill my clients orders, I would like to wish the original poster all the best with that.