Z-SUITE 1.10.0 External Materials Feedback

Z-SUITE/Firmware General Discussion
#21

Hi Marcin, this is awesome!

Feedback suggestions/thoughts (excuse amount)

1. 

Something to convey to users that using Zortrax official filaments and settings, high quality results can be expected with minimal fuss.

a.

This might be as simple as renaming "Zortrax Materials"  to something like:

Zortrax Certified

Zortrax Optimized,

Zortrax Tuned,

Zortrax Ecosystem, etc.  

b.

Maybe for "External Materials" -> "Open Material Mode" or something that has a positive positive spin to it.

Alternatively, it could be some inverse above; Unofficial Material, Non Certified Material, etc. so it's easy for user to understand what they are getting into

2.

Consider making it easier to identify prints not using Zortax official settings. This will make it easier when trying to help with issues and make it obvious for people to know what they are looking at.

a.

In Z-suite, text marking in the view-port (maybe on the virtual bed) so when someone screen grabs, it's obvious whether its in external material mode or not as well as clear to someone who hasn't used z-suite.

 

b.

The nozzle priming line (or raft perimeters) could be shaped differently in external mode, so when someone photos a part still on the build table, one can tell material mode immediately.

 

c.

The display on the machine itself and the enclosure light should make it very clear that a file or current print operation is in "external material" mode. For youtube/media; for single users it's confirmation; for multi-user environments it informs the safety officer / manager that someone is using machine in non standard mode.

3.

Settings (especially temperature) when using  "external materials" should be review-able.

a.  If someone sends me zcode to print (or maybe I make a mistake somewhere), and I think it was set it up for wood filled filament at 190C but for whatever reason it's actually set to the temperature of  290C.. there should be way to tell that before burning up the filament

X. Loaded zcode in z-suite shows temperature

XX. Loaded zcode at machine displays "Max Temp" somewhere before print.

 

b. Good to be able to see in general, sure to forget settings.

4.

Maybe allow users enter a short custom material string field into the zcode so they can embed the material into the file (I could write FooBar ABS 62). Then loading in z-suite, or printer, the specific material shows.

5.

Consider extending the lower end of the temperature range; some filaments, such as popular light colored wood fill, print as low as 160C (min right now is 190C, which can darken a filament)

6.

Something to indicate to a buyer looking at M300s, using M200 specific materials has similar results to a M200 if setup in external mode (side note - the values to be used for Z-Ultrat compatibility, using 'abs-based', is not shown).

7.

Since external filaments are now OK, is it ok to talk about 3rd party hardware upgrades allowing for printing of external materials? For example, Julias ZT-HE Hot End allows for flexible filaments.

8.

Separate M200/M300 subforums for posts regarding External Filaments / Custom Settings to prevent forum convolution.

#22

Hi Marcin, this is awesome!

Feedback suggestions/thoughts (excuse amount)

1. 

Something to convey to users that using Zortrax official filaments and settings, high quality results can be expected with minimal fuss.

a.

This might be as simple as renaming "Zortrax Materials"  to something like:

Zortrax Certified

Zortrax Optimized,

Zortrax Tuned,

Zortrax Ecosystem, etc.  

b.

Maybe for "External Materials" -> "Open Material Mode" or something that has a positive positive spin to it.

Alternatively, it could be some inverse above; Unofficial Material, Non Certified Material, etc. so it's easy for user to understand what they are getting into

2.

Consider making it easier to identify prints not using Zortax official settings. This will make it easier when trying to help with issues and make it obvious for people to know what they are looking at.

a.

In Z-suite, text marking in the view-port (maybe on the virtual bed) so when someone screen grabs, it's obvious whether its in external material mode or not as well as clear to someone who hasn't used z-suite.

 

b.

The nozzle priming line (or raft perimeters) could be shaped differently in external mode, so when someone photos a part still on the build table, one can tell material mode immediately.

 

c.

The display on the machine itself and the enclosure light should make it very clear that a file or current print operation is in "external material" mode. For youtube/media; for single users it's confirmation; for multi-user environments it informs the safety officer / manager that someone is using machine in non standard mode.

3.

Settings (especially temperature) when using  "external materials" should be review-able.

a.  If someone sends me zcode to print (or maybe I make a mistake somewhere), and I think it was set it up for wood filled filament at 190C but for whatever reason it's actually set to the temperature of  290C.. there should be way to tell that before burning up the filament

X. Loaded zcode in z-suite shows temperature

XX. Loaded zcode at machine displays "Max Temp" somewhere before print.

 

b. Good to be able to see in general, sure to forget settings.

4.

Maybe allow users enter a short custom material string field into the zcode so they can embed the material into the file (I could write FooBar ABS 62). Then loading in z-suite, or printer, the specific material shows.

5.

Consider extending the lower end of the temperature range; some filaments, such as popular light colored wood fill, print as low as 160C (min right now is 190C, which can darken a filament)

6.

Something to indicate to a buyer looking at M300s, using M200 specific materials has similar results to a M200 if setup in external mode (side note - the values to be used for Z-Ultrat compatibility, using 'abs-based', is not shown).

7.

Since external filaments are now OK, is it ok to talk about 3rd party hardware upgrades allowing for printing of external materials? For example, Julias ZT-HE Hot End allows for flexible filaments.

8.

Separate M200/M300 subforums for posts regarding External Filaments / Custom Settings to prevent forum convolution.

:wub:

Gathered, described and passed further. Some features may show up earlier but most of it, could be implemented in next bigger update. 

Ad.8:

Will do. 

#23

an essential option to offset the initial nozzle height is missing, more about it here: http://forum.zortrax.com/index.php?/topic/2936-printing-p-l-a/?p=31437

#24

I don’t undestand the excitement… ok it would be great if it worked… but the PLA prints stick so strong to the raft it’s impossible to remove it… just not finished but a great strategic step…

#25

I don't undestand the excitement... ok it would be great if it worked... but the PLA prints stick so strong to the raft it's impossible to remove it... just not finished but a great strategic step...

There are solutions for the raft not to adhere to the PLA part

- take a break at the end of the raft and deposit lacquer or better some glue stick on the surface and then restart the printing

- do the raft in HIPS for example then change the filament and put the PLA

#26

I don't undestand the excitement... ok it would be great if it worked... but the PLA prints stick so strong to the raft it's impossible to remove it... just not finished but a great strategic step...

Just read what I wrote 1 (!) post before yours. The problem is that PLA needs a higher initial nozzle distance. This should be an option for the External Materials profile, you can also do it manually, only thing you have to do is to read!

And there is no need to lacquer, glue stick, other raft material and any other 3DP Voodoo, it's just the initial nozzle distance.

#27

Try whith z-glass parameter the initial nozzle distancec  is more hight.

I have no problem to remove the raft. extrusion temp 215°C and fan 100%

#28

Just read what I wrote 1 (!) post before yours. The problem is that PLA needs a higher initial nozzle distance. This should be an option for the External Materials profile, you can also do it manually, only thing you have to do is to read!

And there is no need to lacquer, glue stick, other raft material and any other 3DP Voodoo, it's just the initial nozzle distance.

Thanks a lot... yes read it... but I don't love those workarounds... Zortrax could eeeeasily implement those features in Z-suite couldn't they? 

#29

Marcin:

I've done some tests with setting "External Materials" and low Extrusion Temperature (so 210 ... 230°C).

The printed parts are looking good, but there happened an issue on Raft printing.

If my observations are right, Raft printing uses the set "Extrusion Temperature" (that's ok), but it prints with a fixed printing speed and fixed material flow ratio (so regardless of the set Extr. Temp.).

Now, when using a low Extr. Temp., that happens on Raft printing:

As always, material extrusion for the very first "snake-like" laid Raft layers is higher.

If we print with (e.g.) 260°C, the thickness of this first printed big Raft layers is low due to the low viscosity of the melted material -> everything looks good.

But with (e.g.) 220°C (still enough for melting), Raft thickness on the very first layers gets somewhat higher!

Then, while printing the next 2 Raft layers (these are the slim-line stripes), the nozzle "clatters" more/less noisy over the thicker start layers, because Raft printing seems having a fixed resolution on Z axis, regardless of any settings!

As lower the "Extrusion Temperature" is set, as more the nozzle will "scrub" (noisy) on printing of this slim-line Raft layers.

I think, if "External Materials" is set, then for the very first laid Raft layers it is necessary, taking "Extrusion Temp." more into account to Raft printing (-> extrusion quantity), especially for the lower end of that parameter range (190°C).

Maybe addition of "Raft Flow Ratio" (in percent, likewise "Print Speed") to "Print Settings" could be a solution? ... I'm not sure.

Please have a look at this issue - many thanks.

#30

Hey Marcin,

I've been using this now regularly, and I have two points...

  1. My PLA [colorfabb] is much happier at 180 degrees for raft and support removal
  2. The best PLA prints I have done still use external mods, and the ZABS profile with a temp offset. It's like whatever adjustments you make during the Z-ABS slcing work perfectly with a temp offset.

So my question is, does the external materials profile print the entire model at the set temperature, or does it introduce some of the fluctuations exhibited during Z-ABS slicing?

Secondly, please please please allow modifying retraction in advanced materials for Z-materials... I have *never* been happy with retraction on my M200, and the retraction setting has totally fixed all my blobs and strings, under both ZABS and external materials. I would really appreciate being able to adjust retraction on the z-materials profiles.

Thank you

Nick

#31

Marcin:

I've done some tests with setting "External Materials" and low Extrusion Temperature (so 210 ... 230°C).

The printed parts are looking good, but there happened an issue on Raft printing.

You're 'findings' are most probably related to wrong initial nozzle height (I explained it before). Try using a 0.5mm metal shim to adjust that height by putting the shim between the 2 sensing points (center of bed and left-front) and the nozzle at the start of a print.

If Z-Suite 1.10 finally did not change everything in slicing a model your'e other observations are not correct (cannot tell for sure, did not use 1.10 yet).

#32

So my question is, does the external materials profile print the entire model at the set temperature, or does it introduce some of the fluctuations exhibited during Z-ABS slicing?

why not connect a DVM to your Z-Temp's external connector and read out the real values (and tell us the facts)?  B)

#33

Dunno if Zortrax's new attitude allows me to say this, but as far as I can tell, Z-Suite always only sets the temperature for bed and extruder once initially (not counting the final switching off).

Of course the actual temperature will go up and down e.g. when the fan kicks in but that's the regulation loop and not intentional.

About retraction in Z materials: I haven't actually checked but I would be surprised if there was a difference in the profiles for Z-ABS and "ABS based". Of course the "UltraT based" profile is missing but as far as I can tell, the ABS and UltraT profiles are very similar so I guess using the "ABS based" profile shouldn't hurt.

Hey Marcin,

I've been using this now regularly, and I have two points...

  1. My PLA [colorfabb] is much happier at 180 degrees for raft and support removal
  2. The best PLA prints I have done still use external mods, and the ZABS profile with a temp offset. It's like whatever adjustments you make during the Z-ABS slcing work perfectly with a temp offset.

So my question is, does the external materials profile print the entire model at the set temperature, or does it introduce some of the fluctuations exhibited during Z-ABS slicing?

Secondly, please please please allow modifying retraction in advanced materials for Z-materials... I have *never* been happy with retraction on my M200, and the retraction setting has totally fixed all my blobs and strings, under both ZABS and external materials. I would really appreciate being able to adjust retraction on the z-materials profiles.

Thank you

Nick

#34

When I used other manufacturers ABS I had to lower the Z-ABS profile from 275 (which is high for ABS) to 245. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the ABS based profile was actually a bit lower if Zortrax took this into account. 

#35

Nah, temperatures for the based profiles are definitely the same as for the according Z profiles.

I mean you can see the temperatures in Z-Suite, and the extruder temperature is 275°C for "based on ABS" just as it ever was for Z-ABS.

When I used other manufacturers ABS I had to lower the Z-ABS profile from 275 (which is high for ABS) to 245.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ABS based profile was actually a bit lower if Zortrax took this into account. 

#36

So it is, should probably be lowered a bit then for non 'Z' ABS. 

#37

Hello Marcin,

I’ve updated z-suite this morning and the ext. materials is the thing I was looking for  :D

I’ll try it soon with flexible material. 

I also have a problem with the rotation mode,  the piece is randomly rotated with the cursor + / - and same with the slide bar (from 0 to 100% it makes several turns so I can’t turn my pieces properly even if I type the numbers by myself, I mean, if I put 90degrees, it’ll by something like 120 or 200+ degrees, and I never had this problem with the previous versions of z-suite.)

Thanks in advance for the work on this bug, and thanks a lot for this new material option :smiley:

 

#38

You're 'findings' are most probably related to wrong initial nozzle height (I explained it before). Try using a 0.5mm metal shim to adjust that height by putting the shim between the 2 sensing points (center of bed and left-front) and the nozzle at the start of a print.

Thanks for this good advice! When using a 0.2mm tin plate (in my case), Raft gets printed perfectly and removing the print from the platform is easier!

I would appreciate it too, if Z-Suite could get a correction like that, or any option at "print settings" in that regard.

#39

Hey Marcin,

I've been using this now regularly, and I have two points...

  1. My PLA [colorfabb] is much happier at 180 degrees for raft and support removal
  2. The best PLA prints I have done still use external mods, and the ZABS profile with a temp offset. It's like whatever adjustments you make during the Z-ABS slcing work perfectly with a temp offset.

So my question is, does the external materials profile print the entire model at the set temperature, or does it introduce some of the fluctuations exhibited during Z-ABS slicing?

Secondly, please please please allow modifying retraction in advanced materials for Z-materials... I have *never* been happy with retraction on my M200, and the retraction setting has totally fixed all my blobs and strings, under both ZABS and external materials. I would really appreciate being able to adjust retraction on the z-materials profiles.

Thank you

Nick

Hey Nick :)

Its being printed with constant temp through whole print.

Default External Materials are based on Zortrax profiles 1:1

Abs based = Z-ABS profile

Hips based = Z-HIPS profile

etc 

I know there is no Ultrat based profile, but its pretty much the same as ABS. 

#40

Thanks for this good advice! When using a 0.2mm tin plate (in my case), Raft gets printed perfectly and removing the print from the platform is easier!

I would appreciate it too, if Z-Suite could get a correction like that, or any option at "print settings" in that regard.

Try with a bigger shim and it can get even better (depends on the material).