Z-suite slicing issue with model in specific orientation

Hello,

I'm having issues with Z-suite slicing when my model is oriented face up. A part of the model's surface disappears. I've tried different settings but unsuccessful. If I orient the model at a different angle, the surface will appear again however it would be more difficult for support removal. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

I think the "ornament" or curved sections are too thin. If you change the angle, the cross-section will be wider, and it will print.

Thanks motordude I'll take a look at this. FYI, it seems to show up fine on other slicers without any changes and it has been printed as is before on another 3D printer. I can rotate and re-slice, but its going to be a pain to get all of the support plastic off. 

You can share STL with me or check walls thickness using NetFabb by yourself. 

According to NetFabb, the wall thickness is .02 mm 

According to NetFabb, the wall thickness is .02 mm 

How do you think you could print a 0.02 mm vertical wall thickness with a 20 times higher nozzle diameter (almost same question if you were mistyping it and meant 0.2mm wich means a two times thicker nozzle dia)?

Have a look at

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1184723

You can try it yourself.

How do you think you could print a 0.02 mm vertical wall thickness with a 20 times higher nozzle diameter (almost same question if you were mistyping it and meant 0.2mm wich means a two times thicker nozzle dia)?

How is it then possible to print with a layer height of 0.09mm and nozzle diameter of 0.4mm? It's all about stretching the hot filament, thus decreasing the diameter, I suppose.

Have a look at

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1184723

You can try it yourself.

guess you told that to the original poster, not me (otherwise it doesn't make sense to me)...

How is it then possible to print with a layer height of 0.09mm and nozzle diameter of 0.4mm? It's all about stretching the hot filament, thus decreasing the diameter, I suppose.

The answer to your question could be found by yourself just by thinking about what you have written (always a good thing).

FDM is not about stretching filament, it's about squeezing filament thru a tight nozzle with some pressure. Otherwise it would not flow. Pressure is an adjustment to the thickness to some degree. If the nozzle is lifted by 90 microns you could guess (or try) what happens if you squeeze filament thru the 0.4 nozzle.

Hint: The horizontal space between the nozzle and the bottom surface or bed is 90 microns. Where does the filament go from that 400 micron output tube and how thin could that be for this direction (wich is vertical [hint#2])?

The answer to your question could be found by yourself just by thinking about what you have written (always a good thing).

FDM is not about stretching filament, it's about squeezing filament thru a tight nozzle with some pressure. Otherwise it would not flow. Pressure is an adjustment to the thickness to some degree. If the nozzle is lifted by 90 microns you could guess (or try) what happens if you squeeze filament thru the 0.4 nozzle.

Hint: The horizontal space between the nozzle and the bottom surface or bed is 90 microns. Where does the filament go from that 400 micron output tube and how thin could that be for this direction (wich is vertical [hint#2])?

To clarify, of course I know that the filament is feed through the nozzle. I was not arguing about the actual width of the string, just that a 0.4mm nozzle doesn't mean that you can't get a thinner string than the nozzle diameter.

My point is, if the filament feedrate f (mm/sec) and the distance a (mm) from nozzle tip to perfboard is fixed, then a change in extruderhead velocity (in X & Y directions) v (mm/s) will change the cross-sectional area, and hence, the width and height of the printed filament string.

When the filament is extruded (or pressed if you like) through the nozzle, a part of the string is welded to the perfboard, and thus unelastic, and a part of it is still in molten state and elastic. The molten filament string will be in the "air" between the perfboard and the nozzle. If you now speed up extruderhead velocity, you will stretch that "airborne" string, and decrease its cross sectional area.

So to conclude, the filament is extruded (pressed,squeezed) through the nozzle and then stretched when leaving the nozzle, due to the relative movement between the nozzle and perfboard, thus decreasing cross section area.

 Where does the filament go from that 400 micron output tube and how thin could that be for this direction (wich is vertical [hint#2])?

If I understand you correctly, this calculation will give an answer to your hint. I assume in the calculation that you mean that the area of the filament through the nozzle is equal to the area of string on the perfboard. I base that on your comment that "FDM is not about stretching filament".

Cross sectional area of nozzle An (and filament):  An=Pi*d^2/4= 3,14*0,4^2/4= 0,126mm^2

To simplify we assume that the printed string is now a rectangle with height h=0.09mm and width w.

Area of Rectangle  Ar=h*w (mm^2)

We assume Ar=An

hence w=Ar/h=0.126/0.09=1.4mm.

According to http://reprap.org/wiki/Filament: ABS filament through a 0.5mm nozzle will stretch to 0.3 mm diameter, which means that the cross section area will be reduced to about 36% of its solid state area.

So if we apply that to the example above then:

Stretched extruded filament area As=An*0.36=0,126*0,36=0.045mm^2

thus

w=As/h=0.045/0.09=0.5mm.

In other words, due to stretching, the minimum width (or wall thickness) of a 0.09mm layer will be 0.5mm. (At least in theory!!)

So, if I understand you correctly, you say that a layerheight of 0,09mm would make a string 1.4mm wide. If I got you all wrong please excuse me!

Best regards

John Tangerås

You must have some academic degree I guess. This is often used to discuss/explain things to the most extended degree such that 'normal folks' don't understand anymore. :-)

In other words, due to stretching, the minimum width (or wall thickness) of a 0.09mm layer will be 0.5mm. (At least in theory!!)

So, if I understand you correctly, you say that a layerheight of 0,09mm would make a string 1.4mm wide. If I got you all wrong please excuse me!

But you got it back on the point above. I did not tell what you told I would, but I also told you could test it (no theory, not supposing finally).

And yes, you're right with your calculation. The thinnest vertical wall I printed with the M200 so far is somewhat above 1mm (1.1 or 1.2).

And I did that with a layer height of 0.2, interesting point if it could get thinner with lower layer height, but I think this is theory.

The least because of one missing factor in your stretching formula wich is accuracy. At some point accuracy is lost and since the M200 is a HQ printer I think this 'stretching' is limited by Slicer and/or firmware.

Bottomline: You cannot print a 0.2 (or even 0.02) vertical wall with a M200 (and all other FDM printers I know). Just look at the given specs for vertical resolution and this post explains why. What can be done is turning the model to make this walls horizontal and raise the resolution to the layer height (wich could be lowest 0.1 in the Z-Suite version I use).