I was curios about this new bridging feature that new Z-Suite suppose to have. I draw upp a small test and from what i can see so if gap is 8mm or less no support will be created even if you have chosen support. I think that is awesome! All settings is standard with 20 degress support.
As you can see on the pic that the part that is 8x8mm really has bridging, the part is 9x9mm prints with support and no bridging like before. Now i must do a testprint to compare the outcome. :)
Testprint is now completed, 8x.8mm part with bridging got some "sag" in the middle but not too bad. Part with support is perfect as usual. My conclusion is that briding is really good to have in some cases but not always. So my suggestion is that bridging or support should be decided by the user in the same way that Julia suggested in another thread. Julia quote: "Up gives their users the ability to control this via the "minimum support area" parameter."
Zortrax it would be really nice if we got an option like that too in future Z-Suite.
Yeah… I wouldn’t be happy with the sagging there. I think we need at least an option to turn the bridging off.
Rik, the bridge option is very useful when you print models created with Voronoi algorithm, remove support from small holes is really pain in many cases.
About “minimum support area” parameter" is like that, someone say something but never test it
In my opinion this is the next option which will complicate the printing process, more options, more learning, more failed printsand circle closed. This is not our srategy, we have other idea how to add better option but everything need time to write hundreds or thousands line of code and make a lot of tests.
I like this briding feature alot! I just want some control over when or when not i want to use it. Or like Andre suggested turn bridging off completley if we dont want to use it at all for some different reasons.
About "minimum support area" parameter" is like that, someone say something but never test it ;) In my opinion this is the next option which will complicate the printing process, more options, more learning, more failed printsand circle closed. This is not our srategy, we have other idea how to add better option but everything need time to write hundreds or thousands line of code and make a lot of tests.
"Never test it"??? It has been in the Up software since at least 2012. As far as I know, Up customer service has no problems due to this parameter being available. Last year I set up a makerspace at my local library with four Up printers. They are used mostly by kids 10-18 yrs old. I have not had one customer support issue due to this parameter being available. It is amazing how low Zortrax's opinion of its users' intelligence is.
Re "hundreds of thousands of lines of code", OK, I understand that slicers are complicated, and your programming team is very busy designing new icons and UI colors. But at least be honest and say "yes, this is a good idea" instead of "our users are too stupid to understand it, and if we make it available everyone will make bad prints".
Rafal,
It’s great that you have introduced the function of bridging smaller gaps that really don’t need support. It will make printing items with smaller holes that have never actually needed support much easier. I am disappointed that the function isn’t an option though, as previously we were able to print the items without drooping arches (albeit that we did have to remove support from them). Personally I would rather remove support than sacrifice print quality. Other software that I currently use (Simplify3d) has the unique ability to allow the slicer to generate support, but then to manually delete individual supports where not required. In addition, minimum bridge sizes are possible to specify which makes the jobs really efficient.
What I must say, is that irrespective of your technical change, one thing remains constant - your total and utter lack of customer facing skills. You have just been wholly unacceptable in your conduct in plain view of all of your customers. Julia is a highly respected and knowledgable professional within the 3D printing and engineering industry in general and to treat your customers with such disrespect really is a disgrace. She made valid and constructive points which you could have taken on board as a valid viewpoint from one of your customers, but rather you chose to be rude, arrogant and downright sarcastic. What is shameful is that she shouldn’t have to make these points to you - making the setting optional is the most obvious thing to have implemented and it’s not like you were inventing the wheel here - all slicers before you have this option - simply because it is required by users.
If the ability to switch it on and off isn’t available, I would rather you acknowledge this - I would stay with my previous software version. To simply argue that it isn’t required isn’t required is not the way to respond.
Incidentally, when is the WIFI option being implemented? My printer will be obsolete by the time you deliver the specifications I was promised when I purchased it.
Unhappy customer.
Jay are you a Julia’s lawyer ? You’re unhappy I’m happy customer, 1:1. WiFi is in your printer LOL
BTW: Jay, I have a one very important question to you and Julia - Could you recommend me a better printer than Zortrax?
Wow.. Where is this going? Very unprofessional and not funny at all. Everybody on this forum means well and like their Zortrax printer I'm 100 % sure. I like the software for the greatest part but this bridging could be a step back when not used properly like Trhuster showed. That alone should be proof enough M200 users are skilled and professional. So maybe best would be to use the old settings and somewhere in advanced tab have it adjustable. Everybody wins right?
Andre have a good solution, now I’m printing some housing model on old software with support and w/o support and one on new software withour support, what I see now the bottom surface quality is better then in model w/o support, also I need compare it with support model after finish printing.
Rafal, I think you misunderstand or misquote me. You know that I love my M200 and that I bought not one, but two of them. You know that my positive comments and reviews here, elsewhere on the internet, and even locally in my area have been responsible for selling quite a few more.
Here, on this forum where we can make our voices heard to the management and developers, I have been occasionally critical (mostly of software/firmware) in the hopes of ultimately helping improve the machine. I hope that those occasional criticisms have been balanced by the many times I've posted to help other users get the best performance from their M200s.
The only reason I mentioned the Up in my comment is that you said that a user-adjustable "minimum support area" or equivalent parameter is untested. It is not untested, it has been tested by thousands of users over more than three years, that was my point. I did not say that the Up is better than the M200, and I did not say I prefer it. I just said that it has a good feature that would be nice to also have in Z-Suite.
The "Auto Bridging" feature seems promising. But why should users like RIkard have to "reverse-engineer" it to find out how it works? Why can't the company give an explanation (without revealing secrets) so we don't have to guess? Zortrax states that its products are for serious engineers and designers, so why not treat its users as such, with a little more respect?
julia
Rafal,
I will take Julia's personal opinion any day of the week. If you are going to insult her, then at least pay her a commission for all the Zortrax printers she has sold for you. I get really tired of the seemingly limitless bandwidth of arrogance present in the online 3d printing community.
Rocky
“History teaches us”
Ferruccio Lamborghini, who history
… "We are at the beginning of the sixties and the Drake Maranello is already known around the world. Lamborghini, however, not to be outdone: is present in the areas of tractors, burners for domestic heating, hydraulics. A small industrial empire in fact. Lamborghini is an outspoken man, strong-willed, impetuous that certainly does not a problem to say what he thinks Ferrari. And it does so without mincing words, complaining of the clutch operation of the 250 GT that he bought in 1958. So far distance.
But when he wants to tell Drake how to improve it, it seems that Enzo Ferrari one answered pointedly that “The car is fine. The problem is that you’re able to drive tractors, not the Ferrari.” The story, which was confirmed later by the same Ferruccio Lamborghini, is the spring that triggers the entrepreneur Romagna the decision to build a second touring its canons. The money does not lack. …"
This is my first time seeing the forums in over a week, I have been away with studying for finals and prepping for Maker Fair (which just ended). I had the rare opportunity to meet some of the people of this forums and I was not disappointed. For those who I was lucky enough to meet, thank you for coming out and taking the time to talk to me and sharing your opinions. For those who did not get a chance to come out, see you next year!
*This will be a personal post from here on out, all statements and remarks in this post are not in any way reflective of the opinions of Octave Systems as a company or reseller. They are of my own as an individual*
As for opinions, I am sure we can all agree that everyone has one, and if we cannot agree on that then we have just proven that everyone has an opinion! I think what happens on this forum in particular is that if a member of the community makes a criticism of the product, the staff takes a personal offence thinking that we are insulting them because this is their brain child which is wholly not the case.
To Rafal and all Zortrax staff: If we compare your printer (M200) to the UP Plus, you should be grateful. That little machine has survived for 4+ years now and is still being bought every day. My own machines have been heavily modified to take in any plastic I want to run through it and this little work horse will always hold high regard in 3D printing communities because of its versatility and vitality. The fact that you want to even try to shrug it off and cast it aside is insulting because Teirtime spent year’s listening to its members and using the community’s expertise to improve their product. Why else is it still a factor in a market with Ultimaker (one of the best FDM printers in the 2K price range) and Zortrax (for all intents and purposes a new machine to this market). The UP is in its final stages of life, it is an old product that has stood the test of time and fared well, to think that your printer has more clout is hilarious. Tell me why people install the UP's 5-10 at a time in schools and companies even so recently as two weeks ago? You have a great machine on your hands, why else would I spend 20+ hours in the last 3 days telling people all about it? Why else would I buy one for myself? Why else would I even be here on a forum that I am out classed in when it comes to technical knowledge? I do these things because I love the product you have made, I just despise your attitude towards any remark that is seen as negative. Those on the front line for Zortrax need to show a little more respect when dealing with these matters. There is a huge turn off when a new user comes to a forum after dropping 2000$ on a printer only to see a Management tagged member belittling members on the slightest of comments. This is not even close to the first time I have seen this kind of attitude from the Management group and frankly I think most of us are sick of it.
@Aleksiej, This is not about a better printer it is about the removal of an option that has been around the industry for years. With the idea that Zortrax knows all and thinks its users are braindead Neanderthals.
Just a reminder that this post is of MY OPINION and that I must state this multiple times because I will not allow this to blow back on my work. My opinions are not reflective of what Octave Systems thinks as a company.
I like what Zortrax has done so far with the updates and trying to make everyone happy, I just don't like the way Rafal and the other staff tend to treat the Zortrax customers.
For more fun posts like this follow me @ZortraxforumsNIGHTSHIFT, just kidding and as it has gotten late and a long week is still coming into view I must leave you all.
Have fun and stay cheerful, Rafal included.
-Michael
This is not even close to the first time I have seen this kind of attitude from the Management group and frankly I think most of us are sick of it.
I've been doing international business all over the world for 3 decades now, never experiencing such a level of miscommunication and arrogance before.
This company has a great product, but a hard to believe level of unprofessional communication.
i think it is totally unacceptable to treat a customer (and a valuable memeber of the comunity) like that.
This is not place on private scuffles. Any posts not related to the topic will be deleted.
Another test :
12 mm = perfect
Very nice feature, thanks Z team !
1413
Ted, can you shoot a picture a bit more head on (not at an angle)? I still see sagging at least on the left square.
Andre, I didn't manage to take a good picture. But, in my opinion, there is no sagging. I just have a little warping problem on the left. I measured the 2 other holes in several places : between 11.03 and 11.07. But the requested was 11.5 ... That's not good.
In the other direction : 12.44 to 12.48, requested 12.5 : perfecet
This is not place on private scuffles. Any posts not related to the topic will be deleted.
What are you talking about?