Future versions of Z-Suite

Currently there is no information for owners (or prospective owners) regarding the Z-Suite features that are outstanding - or any timescales for them to be implemented.

I accept that development isn’t always a precise science and that anticipated release dates can move, but it would be great to know:

  1. what is and what isn’t going to be implemented

  2. which features are being prioritised

  3. which releases each feature is planned to be in

  4. the anticipated dates that you are working against

The key areas that I would appreciate updates on (others may wish to add their own views):

  1. the availability of other promised profiles (and materials) - PLA , PCABS, nylon

  2. the ability to print at both lower and especially larger layer heights - neither 25 or 400 micron heights are available as promised

  3. the ability to send print jobs to the printer via wifi

  4. the ability to “shell” prints

  5. options for less dense support structure

Finally it would be really nice if you could say whether the ability to adjust basic extrusion temperature will be offered at any stage in the future. I know this topic has been discussed previously by Martin and others in the shoutbox but it would be lovely to know once and for all whether this will be something the team will make available to us in the future as it currently restricts the printer and it’s potential.

I think everyone would agree that the Zortrax team have produced an amazing printer - one that has the potential to be even better if the advertised features are all implemented. I think that given that each owner has placed trust in the team, it would be really appreciated if we were to receive an update on these features as we have all invested in a machine on the basis that they are to be provided.

Even if the time frames and detail is approximate it would be appreciated and go a long way in repaying the faith that we have all placed in the team.

Best wishes,

Jay

+1 - Some form of dialog by Zortrax on these issues would be appreciated.

Mike

    1. options for less dense support structure [ONGOING]
    1. the ability to print at both lower and especially larger layer heights - neither 25 or 400 micron heights are available as promised [ONGOING]
    1. the availability of other promised profiles (and materials) - PLA , PCABS, nylon [PCABS, nylon, rubber will be available as next]
    1. the ability to “shell” prints
    1. the ability to send print jobs to the printer via wifi

Temperature control is since months and require additional configuration file, but we do not want to show how to do this, messing with temperature and unknown materials is dangerous (clogging, overheating, material melted in middle part of extruder etc.).

Hey Martin !

Firstly - it's great to hear from you, hope you're well :)

I see from your reply that you have placed the questions into order of the priority that you and the team are working on them which is much appreciated. Thankyou also for clarifying the point regarding temperature control - from my understanding of your response, it is not the intention of Zortrax to allow users to adjust temperature at any point in the future? The reason I ask is because reading through other posts on this same forum, Rafal stated that the temperature control would be made available to users:

Pause option is not hard to implement, but this option have lower priority. First we want finish auto calibration, add a few improvements in Z-Suite such as more layer resolutions, 2 or 3 print speed option, support lite, temperature control, and profiles for other filaments such as PC-ABS, PLA, Nylon etc.

Best Regards,

Rafal

 

If indeed this decision has been reneged upon, then it would make the urgency of releasing the other materials even more urgent - the printer is supposed to be able to print them and if you will not allow us to use other 3rd party materials, then it seems only reasonable that you provide the ones that you restrict us to. Incidentally I am more than happy to buy the genuine materials as they are well tested and will I'm sure be less troublesome than using 3rd party materials for all the reasons you gave. I don't have an issue with this at all provided they are made available and most importantly kept in stock. 

Would it be possible to give us approximate dates against each of the items so we know when we can expect to see movement on these key areas. I wholeheartedly appreciate that any dates you give may be subject to change but it would be of great benefit and would at least give us an idea whether each of the outstanding items are weeks or months away.

Once again, many thanks for taking the time to answer my queries Martin, I REALLY appreciate you taking the trouble.

Best wishes,

Jay

Hey Martin,

Thanks for replying to this - it is nice to know you guys are listening!C

-J

Martin - thanks for the update.  I hope that you can continue to provide periodic updates in future.

Mike

messing with temperature and unknown materials is dangerous (clogging, overheating, material melted in middle part of extruder etc.).

People will try "unknown materials" anyway, and it is far less "dangerous" if the "unknown materials" can be extruded at their correct temperature(s). You seem to think your customers are not very skilled or smart. If you don't want the "ordinary consumer" (who I do not believe will spend $1,800 on a big Zortrax anyway, they will buy a $500 DaVinci or Up Mini etc.) to be able to touch the temperature control, then put the temp control in the "Advanced" pane and just put in the instructions that you recommend using the pre-programmed profiles with "authorized" materials and that the temperature control is for advanced users only and use it at your own risk.

We have all had clogged nozzles and jammed filament, even when using only Z-ABS, and for the most part we have solved the problems ourselves without bothering Zortrax too much. Withholding temperature control does not magically make all extrusion problems disappear, and I really don't think that adding it would result in a big increase in customer service problems.

+1 Julia …

Restricting customers to just the available Z-ABS doesn’t make any commercial sense whatsoever - without the other materials being available you will already be forcing customers to try extruding 3rd party materials at the wrong temperature as Julia rightly states. The bigger picture is that although you may sell fractionally more filament, you loose sales of the printer. I myself have bought a different printer as a second machine rather than adding another Zortax, because the responsiveness of Zortrax isn’t where it needs to be (now 3 weeks with a support ticket un-responded to) and the development of the product is just too slow to deliver the specification that it was sold with. Don’t get me wrong, the printer is exceptionally good and I would endorse it to others but it doesn’t do everything that you say it does and that needs to be resolved fast it you are to be able to continue selling something that can’t do what it promised.

Cheers,

Jay

Guys,

Please can you try and give us some time estimates for providing the functionality that we bought. I am deeply concerned to read that you are now working on the next printer when you have still yet to deliver what you have promised when you sold us our existing printers. Unfortunately you have not demonstrated the ability to support the existing product within acceptable timescales - unresponsive to support requests, unable to provide the software and firmware that was promised and not even able to provide any more than alpha/beta versions, yet feel you have sufficient R&D resources to develop future products in parallel? What is worse is that your own employees laugh in the shoutbox at the prospect that existing customers will return for further purchases whilst they still await the delivery of the functionality of the first product. As a customer I am NOT laughing.

Dates against each of the outstanding items is now critical if you are to restore any modicum of faith from me your existing customer.

Regards,

Jay

@Jay

Could you write more specifically what is missing in the software/firmware, or what you don't have, which prevents you working with the printer?
 
In the coffee break, I talk often with people from our sales department and I keep hearing that customers would like to change something but specifically they really don't know what to change and what they want... and it is a perennial problem in the relationship COMPANY <-> CLIENT.
 
A part of customers don't have a reference point from which it can compare the product, in this case, the printer Zortrax. They think that printer is such a magical tool that will print everything and will be trouble-free, they are demanding new products but if they bought product A, then product B should get half price or even for free. 
 
Example: I bought iPhone 4, so this means that the iPhone 5 I should get it for half price or for free? If you know a company with such a policy of selling, let me know, I'll happy to be using their services ;)
 
Returning to the subject of printers , two weeks ago my boss told me - run and take care of Stratasys uPrint printer and Dimension, and believe me this was the worst two weeks of my life. My boss pressure on me that the company purchased a dozen uPrint printer - each of which cost $18,000 and 8pcs Dimension printers - each costing $39,000. It turns out that nobody is able to use these printers. These printers have problems with the extruder. Starting printer (heating chamber, and startup procedure takes more than 1 hour), every time something goes wrong I have to wait 40min to 1h printer performed an operation . We bought already 3 heads that broke down (the new head clog the material !) Each head cost is almost $2,000, and still do not print! 
 
Stratasys does not give any warranty on device. ABS costs is $340 for one spool, spare parts are not available in regular sales and you have to wait a few weeks. For e-mails asking for technical help I get the answer that Stratasys does not perform any support so it looks like that "you're on your own"... Do you want comment this, compare Stratasys with more than 20+ years experience, with printer prices 20-50k $ vs Zortrax with half year experience with 1899$ printer cost? And at this moment for my company the Zortrax is winner - funny, huh?
 
Yesterday our procurement department decided that ordered 20 pieces Zortrax M200, because only those printers (from all that we have) still print and satisfies our requirements. And let me remind you that it is only half a year in sales, and this was not built by the big corporation, just small company. 
 
Jay, could you advise me what printer is best today? :)
 
Stratasys Dimension 1200 clogging material.
 
5duxqf.jpg
 
New print head, new materials and same problem :)
 
20g1g75.jpg
 
 
Makerbot Replicator 2, as everyday... after almost 20h prints, when I come to work, always see it :) Makerbot 5th generation still not working, the print head have problem with extrusion, they don't have warranty in europe, so I need buy a new print head to my new printer because they made mistake in production - sweet!
 
1zwzpdz.jpg

The "wishlist" of specific missing functions has been posted many times here since the beginning of 2014. None of the missing features "prevents one from using the printer", but they do limit one. I agree with you that the M200 is one of the best and most reliable printers on the market. However, the limited options for speed, infill, layer thickness and support prevent me from using it for draft prints or for anything I need quickly. The lack of a way to control extrusion temperature prevents me from getting optimum results with some materials I would like to print with.

Regarding "dangerous" filaments and "broken" printers as predicted by Nizzy, I think this is nonsense. I understand the company wants to make an "appliance" that can be used with good results by anyone. But there are many examples of common appliances used by millions of people that have to be used correctly in order to get good results, and which can be "dangerous" if used incorrectly. The best example maybe is the common household stove. The temperature has to be set correctly for the food to be cooked, or it will be burned or under-cooked. If you burn the food it might stick to the pan and have to be cleaned. If you boil all the water from a pot you might damage the pot. If you use the wrong filament or the wrong temperature or the wrong profile, your print may not be beautiful, but if  you don't cook your eggs long enough or hot enough they will be disgusting - you don't return the stove to the manufacturer because you cooked the eggs wrong. Consumers are not completely stupid, and have learned how to set the temperature on their stoves correctly for the material being used. They can do the same thing for printing filament.

As I said before, nozzle clogs are going to happen even with Z-filament and Z-profiles. It is inevitable. I don't think a clogged nozzle qualifies as a "broken" printer and I doubt that Zortrax will get a lot of machines returned for clogged nozzles, especially now that replacement nozzles are available. The long passage from the feed gear to the hot end can be a problem for jamming with any filament, including Z-filaments, and Zortrax should offer a tool for cleaning jams from this part of the printer. I would like to know of any other way that the M200 can be "broken" by users being offered control of extrusion temperature.

julia

Mark82

For fear of dismissing your comprehensive resume of the current abilities of the Zortrax competition, I have no interest in the shortcomings of their machines. Whether a machine from Makerbot or indeed any other manufacturer is better or worse is of no consequence in the matter as I purchased a Zortrax. The “wish list” is not mine - I cannot claim ownership. The wish list to which everyone refers was written by Zortrax in the form of their specification sheet and marketing material. As such (and given that it formed part of the agreement), to refer to it as a wish list perhaps is a little unfair. In practice this list forms part of a buying agreement and for that reason Zortrax have a contractual obligation to fulfil the promises made therein.

I concur with Julia’s sentiment in so far as the machine being one of the best on the market, however it still does not currently do all that we were all promised when we bought it. In that respect even having changed the marketing material to promise less and avoid this situation going forwards, it cannot do many of the things that the current specification states.

I’m more than happy to wait a reasonable amount of time for further development, however as a customer I think that in return for patience, I should be informed of the timeframe that I may have to wait.

My concern was the contempt that the company had for its customers in stating that we would all rush back when they announced a new machine. No - I needed a new machine this month - I purchased it elsewhere.

Mark82

For fear of dismissing your comprehensive resume of the current abilities of the Zortrax competition, I have no interest in the shortcomings of their machines. Whether a machine from Makerbot or indeed any other manufacturer is better or worse is of no consequence in the matter as I purchased a Zortrax. The “wish list” is not mine - I cannot claim ownership. The wish list to which everyone refers was written by Zortrax in the form of their specification sheet and marketing material. As such (and given that it formed part of the agreement), to refer to it as a wish list perhaps is a little unfair. In practice this list forms part of a buying agreement and for that reason Zortrax have a contractual obligation to fulfil the promises made therein.

I concur with Julia’s sentiment in so far as the machine being one of the best on the market, however it still does not currently do all that we were all promised when we bought it. In that respect even having changed the marketing material to promise less and avoid this situation going forwards, it cannot do many of the things that the current specification states.

I’m more than happy to wait a reasonable amount of time for further development, however as a customer I think that in return for patience, I should be informed of the timeframe that I may have to wait.

My concern was the contempt that the company had for its customers in stating that we would all rush back when they announced a new machine. No - I needed a new machine this month - I purchased it elsewhere.

Jay.. If you look in the shoutbox, Nizzy was trying to make a joke. He did apologize.. A lot of us have been here from the KS beginning and I feel like it's more of a family. Jokes do get thrown around once in a while. I do understand where you are coming from as well. I am still waiting for features mentioned in the KS campaign. Be patient brother,, It will come. I think Mark is just trying to point out that some companies that have been out way longer offer less help. I know it can be frustrating. We don't see all the emails they get. They are trying to build a company from the ground up. I can only imagine what was said about the competition during startup. I am pleased so far and look forward to the implementation of the rest of the goodies.. Just sharing my point of view.

Kyle makes a great point, many things can be lost in translation. Especially when it comes to text based messages. No matter how a person may mean for something to sound, it is often impossible to get your correct meaning across in text. Especially, if the language your are typing, or reading, is not your first language. 

Hey Kyle,

I appreciate all that you say :wink: I guess for me it’s frustrating to have bought what promises to be one of the best machines, but to be limited by what seem to be even some of the real basics of business. As an example, setting even the technical shortfalls aside, I go though a lot of filament and am actually happy to pay for the original material. The colour I mostly get asked for is black but it’s been unavailable for weeks. So when they insist I use theirs but they can’t supply it it’s frustrating as hell. Similarly with the other materials they originally promised us. I see they have even started publishing yet more materials that aren’t actually available yet. I would have bought another machine from them a couple of weeks ago had the responsiveness by Zortrax been better and had they been more communicative. I had to go with another company which really hurts. I really love the Zortax and desperately want them to succeed. I even reached out to do the technical editing for the all of the English documentation for free to show my support, which I guess is why it’s frustrating to then be treated with silence when I ask for some simple info. They have the greatest of ideas and are very vocal about all of them and even stated way back that many of these features were actually available, but after dangling the carrot they struggle to either deliver or even communicate when they will be able to deliver. It’s always going to be a source of frustration for customers because people buy the product based on what they are told, but when they then find out it wasn’t quite as was made out, they naturally want to know when it will be addressed. When the supplier then refuses to commit, the customer shouts louder ! Simple decisions seem to be poorly judged. As an example, the company know that people have been chasing them for months regarding new material availability and that to date only one additional material in a single colour has been added to the normal Z-ABS. So, why before having fulfilled the previous statement announce that yet more materials are going to be released - it will only invite people to start asking when these too will be available. More pressure on themselves. It would be better to under promise and over deliver. Keep the new materials quiet, then release them when they actually have them. Of course the real reason is that the company have to balance people’s view of the product not allowing the use of 3rd party filament and the software being closed source. If they are to place such limitations, then to counteract inevitable comments from the industry they have to be seen to be offering a wide range of materials themselves. It’s all totally understandable. So Zortrax are clearly conscious that it is important to be able to print with different media. The critical step is that it not only has to be advertised but it needs to be available. People will buy the machine on the understanding that these materials will be provided and they need to be to avoid subsequent disappointment.

Having worked in R&D for most of my life - both for small startup companies and ultimately a multinational jointly responsible for a $4.5 bn / year R&D budget I’m confident in my view that although the technical side can often be anything but simple, the rest of it is. You have to communicate expectation and progress to your customer - even more so when they have placed an order of have paid for it and you are behind schedule. The information isn’t sensitive given the features are already public domain and the data should be on the most basic project planner/Gantt sheet - so a summary provided.

Anyway, I genuinely wish Zortrax the very best of luck and hope that things become clearer for both them and for us. They have the potential and they and us have invested in the company, so it’s in everyone’s interest that they succeed.

I still endorse and recommend them, but always add the caveat that they can be a little frustrating with their communication. I would love to remove this caveat and endorse them unconditionally as it’s what the product deserves.

All the best,

Jay

I clearly understand Jay.. What other printer did you buy? I'm really curious how it stacks up? This Is my first printer.. I have no complaints about quality of prints. Just kind of wondering how the other performs.

Hey Kyle :slight_smile:

I bought an Up! Plus 2. It’s a smaller printer but uses a filament that is indistinguishable from the Zortrax filament and which has identical support removal ease. It has a very easy to implement temperature modification which allows the use of 3rd party filament (although as I stated in the post above I actually prefer using the OEM filament as it is well calibrated). Having the option of different temperature control just means that if I did need to print something different then I can. The algorithms for support are a little more advanced in terms of how it can add appropriate support but without being overkill which often is the case with the Zortrax. Neither prints better or worse, it’s just the software is much more flexible and developed with the Up! Plus 2. The result most of the time is that the speed of printing is much faster with no real compromise in quality and the wastage of unescessary support is much reduced. Both printers are great. For larger prints the Zortrax clearly wins. For smaller prints the Up is the go to machine. Ironically although I always imagined I would need a machine that was bigger than the Up, I sat down and worked out exactly how many of the prints I had done with the Zortrax could be achieved with the Up and it was around 90%. So the Up printer is a useful addition to the Zortrax. It allows the use of a more developed software and firmware and additional capacity to my printing.

Cheers,

Jay :slight_smile:

Any idea when we will be able to use the pause function?

Any idea when we will be able to use the pause function?

not sure if u knew this already or not but in the mean time, you can just remove the SD card and put it back in when u want it to continue. itll take a few seconds to stop but it will technically pause the print.

I know this, but you can’t swap the filament… That’s what I’m waiting for.

Thanks for the hint anyway! :slight_smile: