Give us PLA already! (please)

Zortrax M200 General Discussion
#1

Given the amount of useless junk a lot of us create with your machine...

wouldn't it be nice if we had the choice to print in a bio-based plastic like PLA instead of an oil-based plastic like ABS?

(hint: the answer is YES)

Please Zortrax,

do the right thing and offer the PLA you promised a long-long time ago.

- Even for those that think their models will last forever, surely they aren't holding onto their rafts and supports.

You have created a machine that makes other things (lots and lots of other things),

to only offer oil-based plastics is a very selfish move.

Please consider.

Thanks.

-Josh!

#2

Josh wouldn't you rather have nylon or ninja flex like material which is a form of PLA. Regular PLA has no benefit other than it shrinks less, has better adhesion and it's biodegradable. With ABS you can achieve more or less 2/3rds of those strengths with a few steps. I can't speak for you but I want a filament that brings me something new rather then a semi environmentally friendly filament. You have to remember that the manufacturing companies that produce PLA utilize equipment that run excessive amounts of oil and energy which cancels out a lot of the "environmentally friendly" filament that most people brag about.

#3

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/the-myth-of-biodegradability/?_r=0

I also saw once article about PLA fumes which overall have same quality as ABS.

Personally I don’t like “bio components” it take from us resources and soil which should be used to feed peoples and livestock at first place.

Best Regards

#4

Regardless of your views of PLA,

it was promised at the time I purchased my printer and I want Zortrax to make good on their (already late) promise.

To say ''"manufacturing companies that produce PLA utilize equipment that run excessive amounts of oil and energy which cancels out a lot of the 'environmentally friendly' filament that most people brag about''" is a bold statement that I would ask you to back-up with facts. It is my belief that your logic stems from other ill-logical statements like: "Electric vehicles' eco-friendliness is negated by the coal it takes to produce electricity and the energy it takes to create the battery".

You need to keep in mind the alternative: oil (which by the way, also requires a lot of electricity / gasoline / energy to gather and refine). A single gallon of gasoline for example, consumes ~6 kWh of electricity just in the refining process (which happens to be amount of electricity it takes to drive 18 miles! in an electric-vehicle). Sources: http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline

#5

Regardless of your views of PLA,

it was promised at the time I purchased my printer and I want Zortrax to make good on their (already late) promise.

To say ''"manufacturing companies that produce PLA utilize equipment that run excessive amounts of oil and energy which cancels out a lot of the 'environmentally friendly' filament that most people brag about''" is a bold statement that I would ask you to back-up with facts. It is my belief that your logic stems from other ill-logical statements like: "Electric vehicles' eco-friendliness is negated by the coal it takes to produce electricity and the energy it takes to create the battery".

You need to keep in mind the alternative: oil (which by the way, also requires a lot of electricity / gasoline / energy to gather and refine). A single gallon of gasoline for example, consumes ~6 kWh of electricity just in the refining process (which happens to be amount of electricity it takes to drive 18 miles! in an electric-vehicle). Sources: http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline

I understand your point of view but since when have chinese manufacturing plants cared about eco friendly manufacturing? not all filament comes from china but a huge chunk does and their processes doesn't differ much for PLA.

Have you ever used PLA before? It's brittle doesn't do very well outdoors from UV and heat and is not flexable what so ever(standard filament).

Sure there are perks of PLA but the perks aren't that great in my opinion.

If you do any type of sanding you would understand the benift of vapor smoothing with ABS and most methods for vapor smoothing PLA are poor or contain chemicals much worse then Acetone.

 

Again all this is of opinion and I understand where your coming from as well but I personaly

would like to have filament that allows me to push the printer to the next level rather than provide me

with the same if not worse functionality.

#6

PLA has a place in 3D printing.

That's why a LOT of the other guys use it.

But this thread wasn't started to create a pros/cons list...

This thread was started to get the Zortrax team to deliver belated promises.

#7

You have right! Almost 90% printers available on the market use the PLA, now it is worth asking - WHY ?

I think that these 90% "manufacturers" don't have idea how to produce the other materials, they even don't have dedicated software so they have no effect on the development of software. And this "open source" software was created only for PLA which is shiny, and masks all visual defects on the prints. 

It is also worth to mention about the fact that the PLA is not suitable for further processing, this can not be glued using glue, this can not be good paint, is brittle, has low resistance to temperature, and generally not suitable for anything.

Why does the industry don't apply this material in mass production? Why your computer, parts of the car you drive is not made from the PLA, why your RTV / AGD is not made from the PLA?

Give me just a few reasons why it makes sense to use PLA?

Personally, I think that is a lot of materials, a lot better than PLA, and these materials will be available. 

 
Let's face it, the PLA will never be available in Zortrax.
 
BR,
Rafal
#8

Rafal, you forgot to mention that when changing the material from ABS to PLA nozzle becomes clogged :) Besides, nothing more nothing less.

#9

ok, here's "why":

1. It's less prone to warping.

2. It doesn't require a heated platform.

3. It does not emit toxic fumes.

4. It comes from a renewable-source.

5. It is bio-degradable

As I have already mentioned, there are pros and cons to every polymer. So I'm not sure why you needed to see a "pro" list, but whatever, moving on:

- Other printer manufacturers have been known to offer BOTH ABS and PLA as a choice.

- Open-Source software does NOT mean manufacturers have no effect on the development of their software. Anyone is free to contribute (including the 3D printer manufacturer) and new versions are released when enough contributions have been made. There are MANY aspects to Z-Suite that are lacking when compared to Cura (an open-source software).

- The industry DOES apply PLA in mass production. Plastic cups and food containers seem to be the big products for now, but PLA has a place in many other products as well. Given that it's shrink-rate for injection-molding is identical to ABS, I was able to "mass produce" a companies electronic-housing product in PLA. We have run 10K+ of them without issues, we even had the material colored to look identical to any other opaque polymer.

- If PLA is never available on Zortrax, then why would they bother promising it when I purchased my printer?

I hope the "staff" under your name doesn't mean you are a decision-maker at Zortrax.

Because I shouldn't be the one telling you the benefits of PLA... you should already know them.

Lets get someone from the Zortrax team that knows what they are talking about to respond.

I'd STILL like to know when Zortrax will be offering PLA,

#10

hehe Rafal is CEO and founder at Zortrax....not sure you can get any more clear answer than that.

Sorry about PLA, I dont know much about it but for the little I know I personally wouldnt use it for the kind of prints that I do therefore on my end I wouldnt miss it. I’d rather see more advanced material developed by zortrax.

#11

ok, here's "why":

1. It's less prone to warping.

2. It doesn't require a heated platform.

3. It does not emit toxic fumes.

4. It comes from a renewable-source.

5. It is bio-degradable

As I have already mentioned, there are pros and cons to every polymer. So I'm not sure why you needed to see a "pro" list, but whatever, moving on:

- Other printer manufacturers have been known to offer BOTH ABS and PLA as a choice.

- Open-Source software does NOT mean manufacturers have no effect on the development of their software. Anyone is free to contribute (including the 3D printer manufacturer) and new versions are released when enough contributions have been made. There are MANY aspects to Z-Suite that are lacking when compared to Cura (an open-source software).

- The industry DOES apply PLA in mass production. Plastic cups and food containers seem to be the big products for now, but PLA has a place in many other products as well. Given that it's shrink-rate for injection-molding is identical to ABS, I was able to "mass produce" a companies electronic-housing product in PLA. We have run 10K+ of them without issues, we even had the material colored to look identical to any other opaque polymer.

- If PLA is never available on Zortrax, then why would they bother promising it when I purchased my printer?

I hope the "staff" under your name doesn't mean you are a decision-maker at Zortrax.

Because I shouldn't be the one telling you the benefits of PLA... you should already know them.

Lets get someone from the Zortrax team that knows what they are talking about to respond.

I'd STILL like to know when Zortrax will be offering PLA,

lol Josh you must not know that Rafal is the CEO of Zortrax.

You may not think he knows what he's talking about but no one has been able to produce a printer in the price range with the reliability and quality of the M200.

#12

I hope the "staff" under your name doesn't mean you are a decision-maker at Zortrax.

Because I shouldn't be the one telling you the benefits of PLA... you should already know them.

Lets get someone from the Zortrax team that knows what they are talking about to respond.

Uh... Rafal is the Chairman of the Board / President and co-founder of Zortrax.

#13

Josh, no offense, but I don't understand you ;) If you want PLA just print from PLA - very simple ;)

#14

I only want PLA to do investment casting.. That is the only purpose I can find for it.. (but I still want it) :D

#15

Uh... Rafal is the Chairman of the Board / President and co-founder of Zortrax.

Ummmm.... :D

#16

I hope the "staff" under your name doesn't mean you are a decision-maker at Zortrax.

Because I shouldn't be the one telling you the benefits of PLA... you should already know them.

Lets get someone from the Zortrax team that knows what they are talking about to respond.

I'd STILL like to know when Zortrax will be offering PLA,

I think he wants to talk to the boss.... :D

#17

1. It's less prone to warping

 

Ok, do you have any proof, documentation of tests, material data sheet etc ?

On the picture you can see that PLA have also warping syndrome:

 

212zr02.jpg

 

3008vn4.jpg

 

2. It doesn’t require a heated platform.

 

It depends on the composition of the mixture, except that I think it’s a weak argument.

 

3. It does not emit toxic fumes.

 

Any proof? I talked to several laboratories that deal with testing material, and documentation is clear that everything depends on the composition of the mixture used to manufacture the material. You’d be surprised how many toxic contaminants is in your ecological PLA. Comparing the Z-ABS to PLA, the Z-ABS with a desire I can eat for breakfast instead of flakes with milk :wink:

 

4. It comes from a renewable-source.

 

Again, any proof ? I think we should send some challange to guys from Mith Busters :wink:

 

5. It is bio-degradable

 

Sure, this toxic PLA is bio-degradable. I’m not a EKO TERRORIST :slight_smile:

 

Summarizing:

1. Don't believe in everything you read on the internet

2. Don't copy the information for which there is no proof

3. Everyone can modifed any information on the Wikipedia etc. so after few hours I can change the information about PLA, write some informations about the fact that the PLA emits radiation, that contact with this material kills within 30 days, or causes reversible changes in body - DO YOU'LL BELIVE IN IT TOO ?

BR,

Rafal

#18

[EDIT]

Please use a cultural vocabulary

#19

Ok, poo it’s allowed?

This is not a technical discussion.

But about manners, maybe ethics.

I want to print with poo.

The Ceo promised poo amongst many other useful materials.

Now he denies the usability of poo.

Give what you promised! Give us poo.

At least the possibility to print it, a profile, not poo filament itself.

Or this printer is incapable to print poo?

Or babies are not allowed to play with poo?

All they do it.

(of course English is not my mother tongue)

#20

Ok, poo it's allowed?

Sure, much better :)