yes again 'Warping'

Support&troubleshooting Zortrax M200
1

Hi to you all,

I have been printing almost 7 Months now with the Zortrax M200. It is really a very good machine, but there is one problem I just can't tackle.

Warping! Today I printed my second set of models on a brand new build plate. I have red the tutorial how to handle with the build plate and all, but is it really normal

that warping appears the second time you print on a new bed?!

I have restarted the job and sand the bed with sandpaper and used the glue stick. Something I prefer not to do. The special bed with all the holes is designed to avoid warping problems is it?

any suggestions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/im7swnu8cz5j29d/20150624_093003.jpg?dl=0

2

I tried gluestick too, it works but if you have problems abs slurry works better.

http://forum.zortrax.com/index.php?/topic/483-tips-tricks-warping-issue-solution/?hl=slurry

3

any suggestions.

Yes, don't sand a new perfboard. Use side covers (cannot tell from the picture if you do) and if this are two or more objects in one print, then make them individual prints, each centered on the bed.

And check your bed calibration, the distance bolt looks very high to me.

Every printer I had before tends to warp when you get to the outer areas of the bed with objects that cover large areas.

There are more actions that can prevent warping but your objects are not that large at all. I never sanded or used ABS slurry.

4

Use side covers (cannot tell from the picture if you do) 

And check your bed calibration, the distance bolt looks very high to me.

I have side covers and I use them. After I mounted the new perf board I calibrated the bed.

Time to use the slurry stuff I think. It is really hard to stick on deadlines with customers if there are these warping issues on a regular basis :-(

There is simply no time to print all the parts individual.

5

There is simply no time to print all the parts individual.

I think prints can be most often rearanged to fit in matters of printing time, otherwise you might waste your time with failed prints.

One thing I forgot: Switch off the fan, the warp occurs at the fans blowing side, the objects printed so far don't need it.

If the higher layers need the fan, try the adjustable duct, you could open it for higher layers.

6

Second attempt worked fine.

I ordered the UHU glue stick mentioned elsewhere in this forum.

http://www.manutan.nl/nl/mnl/lijmstift-uhu# seems better than the Office Depot glue stick that I use now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7x2mc6thmhrqzeo/20150624_114607.jpg?dl=0

7

I think prints can be most often rearanged to fit in matters of printing time, otherwise you might waste your time with failed prints.

One thing I forgot: Switch off the fan, the warp occurs at the fans blowing side, the objects printed so far don't need it.

If the higher layers need the fan, try the adjustable duct, you could open it for higher layers.

Most of the time I don't use the fan at all. I have experienced layers to be lose sometimes.

I will take a look at the adjustable duct, thanx!

8

I haven't tired gluestick yet, but with hairspray I reduced the warping issues in a 90% (printing the same pieces).

I have tried a 3Dprinting specific spray which costs 9€, but the hairspray which is worth 1'8€ works better. I was strongly recommended the brand "Nelly". This is a Spanish very traditional brand, so I don't know if it is available in other European countries. 

9

Using ABS slurry should help; just dip a paper towel and wipe the plate before power - only a very thin coat is needed.

One thing I would highly recommend is spend a little time packing the pieces in. Getting them closer will cause all of the rafts to be connected which will help with peeling. If you know you have an issue with warping on a part (the long clip thing) move the other small things to the corners to increase the raft size at the stress points. 

10

Hi everybody,

 

Warping is only related to leveling issue. Stick glue or other solutions are not necessary. It is about the center of bed. Warping occurs when the center of the bed is higher than edges. For example, midpoint is 0.2mm, left-right backs are -0.1. You can easily print a large object if you draw down the mid point. Yes, you have a question about how to do it. I removed a perforated bed and used double-sided tape at the back side of the bed around the midpoint. I think; the cause of warping is the force when we try to get out the printed object from the device with a spatula.

Thanks, again, to Zortrax company for producing the best 3D printer in the world. 

11

Hi everybody,

 

Warping is only related to leveling issue. Stick glue or other solutions are not necessary

Yah no... you are completely wrong in this statement....

If you have been in printing for anything more than a few months you will come to realize that warping is caused by MANY different variables. something like this list: Room Temp, Air being blown across build plate, Heated build plate not hot enough (ABS), Large thin parts printer upright, Garbage Filament, the list goes on. There is not always a pinpoint reason for lift because it can be caused by multiple factors or just one being overlooked. Please watch the Experts and other users hone in on what the issue is with this printer.

-NS

12

Yah no... you are completely wrong in this statement....

If you have been in printing for anything more than a few months you will come to realize that warping is caused by MANY different variables. something like this list: Room Temp, Air being blown across build plate, Heated build plate not hot enough (ABS), Large thin parts printer upright, Garbage Filament, the list goes on. There is not always a pinpoint reason for lift because it can be caused by multiple factors or just one being overlooked. Please watch the Experts and other users hone in on what the issue is with this printer.

-NS

Hi NS,

I know all reasons because I have other brand printers. I have tested all ways which were possible before. I bought my Zortrax six months ago. Besides, I use ABS filament (not z-ultrat). Warping problem became very simple when I understood the leveling. Really, I solved warping problem. I can print very big object, easily. Only, one trick is available. The Center Point of the bed must be always lower than the edges (Only, for Zortrax), and you must level the bed before printing. It's very simple. I can send the pictures of my prints.

AB

13

Hi NS,

I know all reasons because I have other brand printers. I have tested all ways which were possible before. I bought my Zortrax six months ago. Besides, I use ABS filament (not z-ultrat). Warping problem became very simple when I understood the leveling. Really, I solved warping problem. I can print very big object, easily. Only, one trick is available. The Center Point of the bed must be always lower than the edges (Only, for Zortrax), and you must level the bed before printing. It's very simple. I can send the pictures of my prints.

AB

I'm having the same problem, how do you make the center lower, when it will cal just before a print?.

Thank you

14

Hi NS,

I know all reasons because I have other brand printers. I have tested all ways which were possible before. I bought my Zortrax six months ago. Besides, I use ABS filament (not z-ultrat). Warping problem became very simple when I understood the leveling. Really, I solved warping problem. I can print very big object, easily. Only, one trick is available. The Center Point of the bed must be always lower than the edges (Only, for Zortrax), and you must level the bed before printing. It's very simple. I can send the pictures of my prints.

AB

What is the way that you make the center point of bed lower then edges? 

Do you bend the board to manipulate it? Do you set on surface with edges secure and press down on center to warp the bed and make center lower?

Praytell. 

15

Hi NS,

I know all reasons because I have other brand printers. I have tested all ways which were possible before. I bought my Zortrax six months ago. Besides, I use ABS filament (not z-ultrat). Warping problem became very simple when I understood the leveling. Really, I solved warping problem. I can print very big object, easily. Only, one trick is available. The Center Point of the bed must be always lower than the edges (Only, for Zortrax), and you must level the bed before printing. It's very simple. I can send the pictures of my prints.

AB

You have stated that the ONLY reason for warping is the build plate level, but I am saying it is not because of a little thing called science. I do not care how level a build plate is, the print will always warp if it is large enough and has enough mass (these are two different things) the plastic will pull and retract causing lift. Please print me a large flat cube or any object with sharp corners, let me see this trick in action. In testing over 20 printers and hundreds of materials the reason for them not sticking to the plate was almost never just build plate level. 

16
 
HeavenlyCreation, on 24 Jul 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:
What is the way that you make the center point of bed lower then edges? 
 
Do you bend the board to manipulate it? Do you set on surface with edges secure and press down on center to warp the bed and make center lower?
 
Praytell. 
 
Yes, like this. However, I used thin double-sided tape in the middle of back side of the perforated plate for improving stability. Then, I fixed the screws of sides in order, which are facing  one other. Additionally, I have the side covers, and fan speed is always 20%. And, I calibrate the bed before each print. The middle point is always equal to -0.1.
 
I think; we cannot  see any warping problem when use the new machine because warping problems appeared after about 10 prints due to bending in the middle of the plate. Besides, I think, one screw is necessary for the middle of the perforated table.
 
AB
17

Please, first, test what I said, then, write here.

18

I do like the idea of a screw in the middle, if not on the bed, under the bed as it would be better suited not to mess up any prints. 

I will try what you suggest.

So just putting tape under the perf board in the middle helps? Hmm. Cool

Mine is 0 all corners but 0.4 in center and occasionally it affects the raft, depending what material I use. 

I did think it was the cable so I went and tried to remove the connector and re-seat the cable but I broke the connector strain free part and printed another one until I get the IDC-20 in the mail.

i.jpgActually this is the first one....5.5 mm too small so i reprinted and it came out good. It works. lol

19

Hold on, how are you getting the center lower? Because the bottom of the perf board is flat and the top of the metal plate is also flat thus using anything under the middle of the plate will raise the perf board up, not drop it down below the corners. 

Oh and it is on the person who lays claim to prove their methods, not those disputing it. Post up pictures of the parts still attached to the build plate and we will explain the reason you may not have lift.

20

Well, three things to comment on by the radical:  :ph34r:

1st  adil is completely right about the thing with the lowered center

2nd  he does not know all about warping (that's where you are right)

3rd  and that makes some statements sound like nonsense (maybe a translation issue?)

I tried to tell this to Heavenly in another thread already, but I'm also a foreign language writer...

Think of the perfboard as a perfect plain area and also the plate it is mounted on.

If you fit that together there's nothing between it, not even air.

Now think about the perfboard when it is a bit higher in the middle, the plate still plain. Then there is some warp introduced from the outer areas to the center.

If you think it the other way round it's just the same with the outer areas lifted up a bit.

For the 2nd case the screws of the outer area hold down the perf board and give it some pressure with the lower center.

That way you have a perfect plain print bed (plate and perfboard screwed together) that you can level optimal. In the first case the outer areas are screwed to the plate and the center lifts off a bit, that could not be leveled perfect.

To get that center lower you just have to bend the perfboard a bit, it's shown in the support document about warping (unmount, clean, bend, mount).

Anyway it doesn't make sense to level the board before every print (and 'adjust' something with the center) because the nozzle height is leveled at the center automatically in front of the print (withdrawing what one might have adjusted before). If you experience much warping again just use the cleaning procedure again and re-calibrate.

And of course you listed the many other factors of warping already, adil is just a lucky guy having a good printer and doing good with it.

I would like also to see that big area covering flat prints with edges or even boxes with some height.

@adil, you can show them in the Printroom, that's exactly the area to show such things.