Thanks for your comprehensive answer, in fact I did not know the actual state of your 3DP experience and of course I remembered you months ago joining the forum and asking about the M200.
Actually I found your latest posts getting to the edge where it's about teaching 3Ders (having printer(s) and printing experience) about printers and valuing comparisons about brands and printer models. As you referred to the university way of going into themes you would probably agree that the most important thing is to know the source of information. As not knowing your 3DP state and sources this was just a relevant information to me (maybe to others also).
Now I know, It's not from printing experience, you own no printer, you just read much about it. Thanks for sharing this!
can the upbox or raise match the print quality of zortrax?
Back on topic :-)
They can, but it depends...
Nightshift mentioned the Raise would need tweaking, I do not agree if it is about what I print.
There are many mods published already and they all might show enhancements but I did not go into any right now since I did not need it.
Good thing is you can mod and this is supported with much information from the manufacturer, an unthinkable way to go here.
I would tell that the out of box experience of the M200 is better for folks that did not have much printing experience before or do not want to dig too deep into 3DP settings.
Knowing this, one should still be aware that this 'ecosystem' is also the limit and you have a hard time if you want to go beyond that.
At the opposite with the Raise, just the sky is your limit. Up! has loosen some restrictions (opened the software), but I did not use the recent hardware and software.
If it is about the M300 I would bet that not only the print volume will increase but also the problems you have with such large prints and Z-Materials.
Not talking about Z-ABS because it looks like it will not be officially supported (what stops you from printing it anyway?), but except Z-HIPS I think all other materials will show much tendency to warp on a 30cm flat object.
The M300 will be uncovered on it's top, you may have seen prints fail on your M200 that do not use more than half of the bed's area.
Imaging such a print on an M300 with Z-Material (see picture). The raft is 280x165mm, printed PLA.
BTW. none of them causes radioactivity or thermo nuclear explosions (good thing to know).
Funny that someone who is so extremely self-opinionated complains about others "teaching" without even noticing that this is what he does all the time.
And I guess you know that I didn't actually join this forum to ask questions - it was more to counter false statements.
Anyway, while you needed four snooty posts to actually post something relevant to this thread:
When you praise the N2 based on your deep knowledge and experience, shouldn't you also mention that you already damaged it ... twice?
So do you really recommend this printer to someone who just wants to print without becoming a 3D printing expert first?
Funny that someone who is so extremely self-opinionated complains about others "teaching" without even noticing that this is what he does all the time.
And I guess you know that I didn't actually join this forum to ask questions - it was more to counter false statements.
Anyway, while you needed four snooty posts to actually post something relevant to this thread:
When you praise the N2 based on your deep knowledge and experience, shouldn't you also mention that you already damaged it ... twice?
So do you really recommend this printer to someone who just wants to print without becoming a 3D printing expert first?
Actually I don't know why you joined but I am sure that your understanding of knowing something, knowledge and experience is completely different than mine.
And...
I did praise the N2?
I damaged it?
Twice?
I recommended it?
Probably we could point out a problem right now: Looks like you read far too much. Just far more than you are able to understand.
Well, you should know that I'm pretty good with reading and understanding. And that stretches beyond binary streams.
#1 Did you praise the Raise? (hey, that rhymes!)
Sure. To quote you "with the Raise, just the sky is your limit."
#2 Did you damage it?
Hell, yeah. First the heated bed, then the extruder or bearings or whatever because of tangled filament.
You don't know yourself yet, so how would I?
#3 Did you damage it twice?
Sure, see #2.
#4 I recommended it?
Well, you neglected Mike's warning about the N2 needing tweaking and then praised it. So at least implicitly: sure.
So can we stop it now, old man? Since in the end, our opinions of m300 vs. N2 don't differ so much at all.
Still I somewhat hope the m300 comes out soon, is competitively priced and has the same print quality and reliability as the m200.
Then chances are I'd buy one, start printing my own stuff instead of letting other people do it and become one of these superior 3D printer owners you respect so much.
Hell, I might even print a flower pot to earn your deepest respect. Nah, just joking.
Actually I don't know why you joined but I am sure that your understanding of knowing something, knowledge and experience is completely different than mine.
And...
I did praise the N2?
I damaged it?
Twice?
I recommended it?
Probably we could point out a problem right now: Looks like you read far too much. Just far more than you are able to understand.
Well, you should know that I'm pretty good with reading and understanding. And that stretches beyond binary streams.
#1 Did you praise the Raise? (hey, that rhymes!)
Sure. To quote you "with the Raise, just the sky is your limit."
#2 Did you damage it?
Hell, yeah. First the heated bed, then the extruder or bearings or whatever because of tangled filament.
You don't know yourself yet, so how would I?
#3 Did you damage it twice?
Sure, see #2.
#4 I recommended it?
Well, you neglected Mike's warning about the N2 needing tweaking and then praised it. So at least implicitly: sure.
[...]
Forget about telling me what I should know, you have no idea about what this means (knowing something).
#1 I was answering to statements of GreyCloud about that he likes to use more than one slicer vs. a closed systems benefits and the issues of a system that has to be tweaked. You might have lost the path here because you popped in with some advise about another printer you have no experience with, just fowarded what you could find on the web. And I exactly was on Greyclouds posted statements telling when a closed system like the Mxx fits better (you left that out) vs. an open system where the sky is the limit and I wrote about my opinion about what the N2 needs tweaking (or not). But you have no idea about that since you never printed with both. You just run for what you can get on one webpage to have material for posting it to the next, leaving out relations and meanings of the original posts.
#2 oh yes, that one. To be honest I already forget about that because this are things that happen when printing. On the M200 it is the same with bending a pin of the small bed connector or scratching the solder points and cutting of contact or shorten them. This is exactly what you do, you read something you never have seen or experienced yourself and start to make a story out of it. Actually I have put on the manufacturer provided bed clamps and they scratched a copper trace at the beds bottom wich is not visible and this happened to several users also and caused modifications by the manufacturer already. I repaired it within some minutes and posted how to fix it, that's why you could read about it. And the tangled filament that jumped of the spool over night was for sure due to my lack of knowledge and care also. Yes I damaged my printer and you should question my printing experience, start a blog about it!
#4 I did not neglect Nighshifts statement wich was no warning, just his opinion about a printer he uses and supports as a professional technician. And I stated very clear that I do not agree to this but related it to what I print (wich does not have to be the same). But again you, who doesn't have a printer and does not print, feel the need to twist the meanings and discuss it.
I tell you again: You read to much for what you are able to understand, just stop telling me what it is about (since you have no idea) and it ends. We do not share any opinions, even that you cannot understand.
Nightshift mentioned the Raise would need tweaking, I do not agree if it is about what I print.
There are many mods published already and they all might show enhancements but I did not go into any right now since I did not need it.
Good thing is you can mod and this is supported with much information from the manufacturer, an unthinkable way to go here.
I would tell that the out of box experience of the M200 is better for folks that did not have much printing experience before or do not want to dig too deep into 3DP settings.
Knowing this, one should still be aware that this 'ecosystem' is also the limit and you have a hard time if you want to go beyond that.
At the opposite with the Raise, just the sky is your limit. Up! has loosen some restrictions (opened the software), but I did not use the recent hardware and software.
If it is about the M300 I would bet that not only the print volume will increase but also the problems you have with such large prints and Z-Materials.
Not talking about Z-ABS because it looks like it will not be officially supported (what stops you from printing it anyway?), but except Z-HIPS I think all other materials will show much tendency to warp on a 30cm flat object.
The M300 will be uncovered on it's top, you may have seen prints fail on your M200 that do not use more than half of the bed's area.
Imaging such a print on an M300 with Z-Material (see picture). The raft is 280x165mm, printed PLA.
BTW. none of them causes radioactivity or thermo nuclear explosions (good thing to know).
I'm not interested in a printer that I need to tweak to get good results when the zortrax can produce it easily, regarding large prints many people around the net praise the PETG for having minimal warping and low odor so I think its suitable for large prints, I didn't try it my self but I'm ordering it soon together with HIPS to see how they handle warping and the intensity of their odor.
I'm not interested in a printer that I need to tweak to get good results
Me too.
regarding large prints many people around the net praise the PETG for having minimal warping and low odor so I think its suitable for large prints, I didn't try it my self but I'm ordering it soon together with HIPS to see how they handle warping and the intensity of their odor.
You can easily test PETG and HIPS on the M200 and get an idea of what the M300 can do.
I somewhat understand your frustration (even though you'd deny that as well of course). Just keep in mind that I asked you to not to start this and you wouldn't listen.
Forget about telling me what I should know, you have no idea about what this means (knowing something).
[blah].
I tell you again: You read to much for what you are able to understand, just stop telling me what it is about (since you have no idea) and it ends. We do not share any opinions, even that you cannot understand.
If the m300 is supposed to be the quick success that Zortrax needs because of the Inventure's delay (as it was speculated before), a niche product for >4000€ won't help them.
I still find it hard to believe though and there were indications that some resellers expect a catalog price of 3000€ including VAT.
Actually, with the m200 being sold for 1500€-1800€ including VAT, a going price of 2500€-2800€ including VAT seems more reasonable for the m300.
Then again, you never know how suicidal the folks of Zortrax really are.
Too bad. Much as I like my M200, I'd be inclined to look at the competition if I needed a 300x300 mm printer. That price is about $1,200 too high in my opinion.
I was very excited about the M300 until I heard the ridiculous pricing. There are far too many attractive alternatives at that price - Fusion3D, Stacker, N2, and others. Come on, Zortrax get real. You stumbled badly with Inventure, you need to come out swinging now and go head-to-head with the competition.
Zortrax get a grip on reality $5000, is just insane. End of the line for me, I have 2 M200 and i'm 90% happy. I need to look some where else for my next 12x12x12 printer, Too bad.
I really don't see a huge issue with that price compared to others out there.
I looked into the Fusion3 400L or whatever it is, and it was going to be something like 8k landed in Australia.
And to be honest it did look just a little shoddy in build quality.
I'm not buying this new Zortrax (or any other) until they stop being weird about spare parts and warranty, but the price is not such a huge issue to me, and to be honest it will drop as they fall on harder financial times.
its not a huge deal for someone that can shell out that type of cash...
I dont want Zortrax to fail, but I do want them to be more realistic with pricing and let loyal Zortrax users be able to upgrade to the newer products, but at this point, the only suckers that will fall for that price gauging is the un-initiated with deep pockets.
the SLASH has some innovative features and its a fraction of the cost of many fdm printers out there. I'd pay a little extra for higher resolution and innovation, but not for recycled technology.
its not a huge deal for someone that can shell out that type of cash...
I dont want Zortrax to fail, but I do want them to be more realistic with pricing and let loyal Zortrax users be able to upgrade to the newer products, but at this point, the only suckers that will fall for that price gauging is the un-initiated with deep pockets.
the SLASH has some innovative features and its a fraction of the cost of many fdm printers out there. I'd pay a little extra for higher resolution and innovation, but not for recycled technology.
I'm sorry but that just sound like textbook entitlement "I want it, give it to me for nothing, me me".
They built it, that's their price. If you don't want to buy it, don't.
Nobody has the right to dictate the price of a third parties work. I'm sure if you built it and were selling you'd be fine with the price.
I'm certainly not able to afford one right now, so no deep pockets here.
It will either sell or it won't, so be it. If it doesn't it'll drop in price, so maybe just wait?
As for that thing you've linked....it's hardly tried and tested. Will it work for thousands of hours reliably, if at all, IF it even gets off the ground?
My frustration doesn't involve you, but thanks for your feedback its appreciated.
my comparison between the M300 and the Slash is more about the innovation of the product and what areas I would pay and wouldn't pay for. I pre-ordered the Inventure when it was announced, since that price range was reasonable to me, but later canceled it when I found out about the soluble material cost. you're one of those people that reads a few words from a post and assume you know the person, but I get where you're coming from which isn't the case.
maybe I'm missing something here, can someone point out what makes the M300 that expensive? any new innovative features that sets it apart from the M200 besides being bigger?
I'm just like you sitting behind a screen with a keyboard sharing my point of view in this forum. if you can't handle where my stance is, just move along, its really that simple!
